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New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Questions on general information and things that do not fit into any other categories.

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eddy_line
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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by eddy_line » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:12 am

Haven't seen any comments by paddlers. Given that on IR we're not trying to protect against bears or raccoons, is it appropriate to store food (in sealed bags) inside a kayak hatch? Has anyone experienced problems with rodents trying to chew through a hatch cover?

I've always avoided storing food inside my tent, and really don't want to start introducing appetizing odors at this point.


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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by LeftOvers » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:10 am

I've always hung my food at night while on IR except when I'm in a shelter, even though I knew the main camp thieves, bears and racoons, were absent. Mice are everywhere, but they don't climb trees as far as I know.

I've seen some guaranteed odor proof plastic bags at REI. Does anyone have any experience with them? A bear canister isn't odor proof but it'll keep the animals out. I'm not sure how I would use the plastic bags.

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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by porter » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:48 pm

One time I caught a red squirrel chewing into a heavy dry bag which was sealed up n sitting on a table at belle isle. I don't know if it was actually the smell of food or just something that looked like it could carry food that enticed it..
Personally i make sure all food is out of my kayak. I would much rather risk a hole in a bag over a hole in a hatch cover. So maybe the food comes into the shelter or if using the tent i string a rope between 2 trees and carabiner the food sack to the line. never done it high like for bears just 6 ft or so.
Seems like mice get into stuff in the shelters and red squirrels attack stuff outside. Been lucky with the foxes so far.

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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by alecto73 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:16 am

I already critter-bag anyway so no big deal to me, but I'm curious what those bear-lockers cost. Hadn't gotten to use them until Pictured Rocks last year and now I'm a big fan (at least relative to the poles).
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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by jerry » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:50 am

For LeftOvers,

I've seen mice climb trees in the Grand Canyon NP when I was at the Cottonwoods campground on the way up from the "Big Muddy" to the North Rim.

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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by hooky » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:27 pm

I may be guilty of necro-posting here, but I'm sincerely trying to figure out how hanging food will keep the squirrels out of my food stuffs. It sounds like most people are keeping their food in sealed bags in their tents with a cover over it. Has their been any experience from those here where that hasn't worked? I'd rather not pack our 3 lb bear canister to keep the fiercest of the squirrels out.


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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by Vandy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:31 pm

I have always kept my food with me, both in the shelters and my tent. I have never had a problem. The only encounter is with a fox at Daisy Farm CG that peed on my journal when I left it on a picnic table. I guess it was insulted it wasn't food.

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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by Ingo » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:12 pm

hooky wrote:Has their been any experience from those here where that hasn't worked?
Like others, keep food in tent/shelter. However, we did have a squirrel chew through netting, pack, and into the trail mix once--we were in camp, and the food bag was in the tent, up against the door netting. After that we made sure it was in the middle of the tent away from the walls and didn't have any other problems.


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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by fishmonger » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:47 am

When I decided to hike on Isle Royale it never crossed my mind not to take my bear canister, and that was well before I found this post. If you hike in bear country frequently like I do, you'll quickly learn how convenient these things are, and how they change your night's sleep quality, especially in places where trees are not very suitable for securing food, or are totally unavailbale. Greatest gear invention of the last 15 years.

Best part of having a canister in camp is that you can put cool stickers on them to tell the scavenging bear or marmot what you think of them:

Image

Not having bears around on Isle Royale actually makes it suitable for a bear proof kevlar bag used in some areas of the west where canisters are not required by law - the thing is called Ursack - http://www.ursack.com/ - cheaper and lighter than canisters, but once a larger mammal gets close to it, your food contents usually get crushed, which is why they don't allow them in places like Yosemite where bears have been able to get food rewards from these bags after crushing everything inside. A wolf or fox wouldn't be able to do that and you probably would be able to interfere before any food gets messed up. Given hanging is allowed on Isle Royale, I wonder what the Rangers think about the Ursack, which is supposed to be tied to a tree or strong branch to be used properly.


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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by fishmonger » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:00 am

LeftOvers wrote:

I've seen some guaranteed odor proof plastic bags at REI. Does anyone have any experience with them? A bear canister isn't odor proof but it'll keep the animals out. I'm not sure how I would use the plastic bags.
the odor proof bags are useless against bears. They may reduce the range they can smell stuff from, but if they get close, they can smell your stuff. They smell you, too, and that's enough for a smart animal to go investigate what snacks you have packed in for them. Bear canisters are not odor proof either, but bears know from experience they can't get food out of them and completely ignore them (in areas where canisters have been in use for years). They wander through your tent, may sniff your pack (keep it wide open so they can stick their head in and explore without tearing them up), and move on to find somebody else's camp where they may need less energy to get some food rewards.

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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by hooky » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:02 pm

fishmonger wrote:
LeftOvers wrote:

I've seen some guaranteed odor proof plastic bags at REI. Does anyone have any experience with them? A bear canister isn't odor proof but it'll keep the animals out. I'm not sure how I would use the plastic bags.
the odor proof bags are useless against bears. They may reduce the range they can smell stuff from, but if they get close, they can smell your stuff. They smell you, too, and that's enough for a smart animal to go investigate what snacks you have packed in for them. Bear canisters are not odor proof either, but bears know from experience they can't get food out of them and completely ignore them (in areas where canisters have been in use for years). They wander through your tent, may sniff your pack (keep it wide open so they can stick their head in and explore without tearing them up), and move on to find somebody else's camp where they may need less energy to get some food rewards.

A bear that hasn't been educated yet, will still tear your camp apart if you're keeping your bear canister in camp.


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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by LeftOvers » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:52 pm

There's an "Ursack" made of "bullet proof" fabric (Kevlar or "spectra" fabric) that's advertised as bear proof. http://ursack.com/
It only weighs 7.3 oz. On Isle Royale, it could just be left on the ground with a rope securing it to something so a curious fox doesn't drag it off to investigate.
A critter proof model costs $49.95, bear proof, $67.89. Pricey, but I also camp in bear country.


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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by sunsetman » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:52 pm

I'll be trying a Ursack. Great idea.
I don't like the thought of coming into a campground area and see multiple trees mangled from overweigh food bags.While I liked the bearpoles in the Porcupine Mountains and the bear-lockers along Pictured Rocks I think we need to consider the earlier idea of it being a more "wilderness" experience then the average place. And with the bio-sphere designation I hope a bit more time is taken in addressing requirements on food storage on IR.
Just a thought.
Again thanks for the Ursack idea.

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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by photosean » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:44 am

I just received my boat passes for this coming June and in the packet of materials is the "New Food Storage Rules." Here's what it says:

Title 36 Code of Fedreal Regulations 2.10 - CAMPING and FOOD STORAGE
(d) Conditions for the storage of food are in effect, as noted, for the following areas:
*All park area.
*All food, lawfully taken fish, garbage, and scented items (such as toothpaste, sunscreen, lip balm, etc.) shall be kept secured in a boat, ice chest, camping structure, or other container constructed of a solid, non-pliable material, and with a secure lid.
*In the backcountry, all food, garbage and scented items shall be sealed so as to prevent smells; and secured so as to prevent access by animals.


Should I take this as to mean my cuben fiber food bag along with ziplocs are no longer appropriate? The word "non-pliable" is the kicker.

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Re: New Park Regulations for Food Storage

Post by Ingo » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:50 am

No, just sealed and secured (however confusing the wording may be).

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