cell phones

[DonNewcomb]

Maritel has been gone from the lakes for years. The only reliable communication from Windigo is sat phone.

OK. I was looking at the FCC licensee database. MariTEL still listed as holding the licenses. That of course, does not mean that they actually operate.

[Ingo]

I have Altel/Verizon. As of last week, no service from outside Grand Marais north. Had to use a payphone at Rydens. There is no longer a public cell phone in Rock Harbor, due to the switch to digital. "We're working on it", was the response from the concessionaire.

[sonofasailor]

Thanks for the information. I have Sprint, I can get roaming service from Canada, which I have in the past from the Canadian side of Lake Huron. Not sure what carriers the other 3 guys have. I suppose I should be able to call just before rounding the point into Washington Harbor, which will satisfy the wives. During some of the trip we will be hiking on the ridges, probably also to Hugginin Cove, which is right on Superior, so if we can't call before then, we should be able to make a call from one of those places. What I was able to find on the net re: marine operators was not encouraging, it appears this service is not offered anymore, at least not in most places.

[DonNewcomb]

What I was able to find on the net re: marine operators was not encouraging, it appears this service is not offered anymore, at least not in most places.

Yeah. It seems MariTEL only has active service in parts of Florida. WLO (Shipcom) still offers some VHF service but probably only because they have the operators standing by for SSB-HF calls. I think they are just Gulf and Pacific coasts.

I guess it just isn't a going concern when 99% of your business is sucked away by cheaper, more secure cellular services and 1/2 of the 1% that's left gets taken by the satellite carriers.

Keep in mind that you can send a text message with a signal that's too low for a voice call.

[Ucity]

On the issue of communication on the Isle, people might be interested in seeing the radio frequency chart published by the National Park Service in the Isle Royale Fire Management Plan.

I am a licensed radio amateur and normally bring a small radio with me when in backcountry settings.

Someone above mentioned that they travel on IR with a marine radio. I don't believe that there are any restrictions on who may operate on the marine bands--you certainly don't have to be licensed.

The Fire Management Plan suggests that the NPS monitors the important marine channels. There is also a repeater system on the isle--only for use by NPS--which broadcasts on 169.675. This will be used by Park Service staff.

You can get a cheap radio that allows transmission on the marine frequencies, which also allows you to listen to the NPS frequency. You wouldn't need a license to transmit on the marine stations--but everything else would be off-limits to non-licensed or non-authorized individuals.

Although, if it were an emergency situation, the absence of being licensed is not a prohibition against calling for help.

[DonNewcomb]

Someone above mentioned that they travel on IR with a marine radio. I don't believe that there are any restrictions on who may operate on the marine bands--you certainly don't have to be licensed.

I used to have a license for my handheld marine VHF and a 3rd-class operator's permit to use it. As I understand it, the FCC a while back dropped all licensing of VHF marine radios and operators unless they planned to communicate with foreign shore stations.

You can get a cheap radio that allows transmission on the marine frequencies, which also allows you to listen to the NPS frequency. You wouldn't need a license to transmit on the marine stations--but everything else would be off-limits to non-licensed or non-authorized individuals.

Although, if it were an emergency situation, the absence of being licensed is not a prohibition against calling for help.

At one time I could probably have recited the pertinant parts of the FCC Rules & Regs. It used to be that a boat ashore was still a boat and could legally use a marine radio. Many times I sat in our boat, on the trailer, in the front yard and called my friends who were out fishing (ca 1973), with the complete understanding that my actions were within the Rules and Regs. Technically, with a portable license, I could stand on an air matress, on dry land and use the radio. Later the FCC changed the wording so that a boat that was out of the water for any reason other than a big mistake or being grounded by a falling tide could not legally transmit. (I'm not sure of the regulations today.)

Of course, if you have a broken leg, are being eaten by a bear, etc. they will forgive just about anything. However, that radio still needs to be "type accepted" for the marine radio service before you transmit.

P.S. Today I received a Wilson 850 MHz, 5-element Yagi. The thing is made from one piece of stamped aluminum with an inductive-coupled driving element. About 3 oz, most of which is the type-N connector. I plan to bring one of my phones and see if I can actually get any GSM service on IR. I don't expect it to work but at least I'll have some data. Unfortunately, neither my brother nor I have service with a CDMA carrier, which would probably have a better chance.

[johnhens]

It is my understanding that use of a Marine VHF on land constitutes a land based station and therefore requires a license.
Which means carrying a Marine VHF for use while hiking is contrary to its defined use. And for that matter use of a Marine VHF, including a portable handheld, on land is prohibited.

[Ucity]

Being a radio geek, I checked the regs. Both DonNewcomb and johnhens are right.

There are no licensing requirements per se for someone to use a VHF maritime radio on a boat, but land-based stations need a license.

You actually can use a handheld maritime radio less than 10 watts on land, but you must be a Marine Utility Station.

From the FCC:

Using Hand-Held Marine VHF Radios on Land
You must have a special license, called a marine utility station license, to operate a hand-held marine radio from land -- a ship station license IS NOT sufficient. You may apply for this license by filing FCC Forms 159 and 605 with the FCC. To be eligible for a marine utility station license, you must generally provide some sort of service to ships or have control over a bridge or waterway. Additionally, you must show a need to communicate using hand-held portable equipment from both a ship and from coast locations. Each unit must be capable of operation while being hand-carried by an individual. The station operates under the rules applicable to ship stations when the unit is aboard a ship, and under the rules applicable to private coast stations when the unit is on land.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index. ... 0on%20Land


Let us know how your Yagi peforms, DonNewcomb!

[DonNewcomb]

It is my understanding that use of a Marine VHF on land constitutes a land based station and therefore requires a license.
Which means carrying a Marine VHF for use while hiking is contrary to its defined use. And for that matter use of a Marine VHF, including a portable handheld, on land is prohibited.

The operative term is "on land". At the time I was talking about, a vessel of any type, even if it was on the beach, was still a legal place to use a marine radio. If it was legal to use a portable VHF while floating down the river on an inflated raft (such as an air mattress), it was legal to do the same thing while the raft was grounded. For sure, this is an extreme example, but until the early '80s portable marine VHF radios were not that common, rather expensive and generally had no more than 3 channels. The FCC had not really thought it through. When they realized that people were abusing the system, legally, they changed the rules.

(I just gave away my old Pierce Simpson Bimini VHF. No idea why I kept it all these years.)

[Tom]

I think the caution that needs to be stated is that no matter what vendor, roaming plan, cell phone type, etc, phone service is spotty at best on Isle Royale and should not be relied upon as a reliable form of communication. I wouldn't promise a 'check in' with anyone that you'll be OK, but rather a "I'll try."

Marine VHF can work, but honestly if folks want to communicate I encourage you to explore getting an Amateur Radio license. The entry level Technician license is not THAT hard, doesn't require Morse code, and is free. As a fellow licensed amateur (73s, Ucity!), I can say that it's far more reliable. You can connect into the LSAC repeater network on the mainland, and from there the world is available. (http://lsacrepeaters.org/)

[DonNewcomb]

As I recall, from many years ago, there were very strict limitations on the uses of amateur bands. For instance, you could say, "Honey, I need you to send me a new pair of boots." That was OK. But if you said, "Honey, go down to REI and buy me a new pair of boots." you just voilated the non-commercial clause of your license. It got dicey if your ever needed to discuss anything that involved money; like hotel reservations, getting a tow truck, etc. Otherwise, VHF (e.g. 2m, 6m) will have better range than UHF (e.g. 850 MHz 1900 MHz) on most any day of the week.

[Tom]

I don't really find the "non commercial" nature of the amateur service that limiting. It's primarily common sense things and 'pecuniary interest.' Besides, folks here were talking about checking in with loved ones, not ordering a pizza..

Certainly, 6m during high solar activity is about as close to HF as you get...

[moss13]

wha....wha....what!?? You can't order a pizza from Isle Royale??? I thought Ingo ordered one from Bell Isle on his trip and was delivered in 30 minutes or less from Canada. I guess I will just have to be patient and wait for his trip report.

[Ingo]

wha....wha....what!?? You can't order a pizza from Isle Royale??? I thought Ingo ordered one from Bell Isle on his trip and was delivered in 30 minutes or less from Canada. I guess I will just have to be patient and wait for his trip report.

Well it's a bit of secret, and like all things Isle Royale the logistics are a little complicated, but here's how it works:
With your handheld VHF, float the canoe/kayak and get in it. Hail a boat with a high mast and VHF that can reach the north shore (sailboats are great). Ask them to call Lena & Inga (aka "The Sisters") on channel 386 (i.e. the pizza channel) and order a pizza for you. There's only 1 variety and 1 size, so don't worry about that, but you need to tell them which campground you're at. They'll return the coordinates of the meeting place and approx. time. Then you have to paddle at least 4 miles to get outside the park boundaries, since they don't have a license to operate inside the park. Lena & Inga will whip up their organic, all natural pizza made with moose cheese, gooseberry sauce, morel mushrooms, and lichen spices in their cabin on the shore, hop in their super fast cigar boat, complete with warming oven, and meet you at the designated location out on the lake. A GPS is obviously helpful, but we came pretty close with our sextant since we went after dark. Pass a Franklin and they pass the pizza. The pizza will be in a ultra lightweight space age reflective insulating sleeve, so if you paddle fast it will still be warm when you get back to camp--or eat on the lake in the moonlight like we did. To the best of my knowledge the sisters are on the U.S. side so there's no border issues, but no one seems to know exactly where they're located. Anyways, the pizza is GREAT, if not pricey and complicated (like everything else). It also takes a little more time than the 30 minutes (like everything else...)

[moss13]

wha....wha....what!?? You can't order a pizza from Isle Royale??? I thought Ingo ordered one from Bell Isle on his trip and was delivered in 30 minutes or less from Canada. I guess I will just have to be patient and wait for his trip report.

Well it's a bit of secret, and like all things Isle Royale the logistics are a little complicated, but here's how it works:
With your handheld VHF, float the canoe/kayak and get in it. Hail a boat with a high mast and VHF that can reach the north shore (sailboats are great). Ask them to call Lena & Inga (aka "The Sisters") on channel 386 (i.e. the pizza channel) and order a pizza for you. There's only 1 variety and 1 size, so don't worry about that, but you need to tell them which campground you're at. They'll return the coordinates of the meeting place and approx. time. Then you have to paddle at least 4 miles to get outside the park boundaries, since they don't have a license to operate inside the park. Lena & Inga will whip up their organic, all natural pizza made with moose cheese, gooseberry sauce, morel mushrooms, and lichen spices in their cabin on the shore, hop in their super fast cigar boat, complete with warming oven, and meet you at the designated location out on the lake. A GPS is obviously helpful, but we came pretty close with our sextant since we went after dark. Pass a Franklin and they pass the pizza. The pizza will be in a ultra lightweight space age reflective insulating sleeve, so if you paddle fast it will still be warm when you get back to camp--or eat on the lake in the moonlight like we did. To the best of my knowledge the sisters are on the U.S. side so there's no border issues, but no one seems to know exactly where they're located. Anyways, the pizza is GREAT, if not pricey and complicated (like everything else). It also takes a little more time than the 30 minutes (like everything else...)

LOL! That was great Ingo.