Amount of water for a trip

[ffinmich]

Hi, Whats you guess on the amount of water one should have per day if you were goin to carry it all, i know there are alot of factors, average hiker ,average pace, sept.
Thanks

[DonNewcomb]

The rule of thumb is one gallon. On a hot day I can go through quite a bit more than that.

[philranger]

I usually carry 2 full Nalgeens. Sometimes that isn't enough, like the time we went from 3 mile to W. Chickenbone. UGH! Heat and humidity.

[colvinch]

between me and my wife we always start the day by filling 4 32oz bottles and 2 16 oz bottles, when those go dry (all of them) I start pumping. I usually fill these about 3 times a day or more, especially since we use the water for food too.

[zims]

hello all
I have found out that on hot days 2 nalgenes each isnt enough, for long hikes so I also carry a 70 ounce camelback. it never hurts to have a back up supply.

[Midwest Ed]

Given the “average” constraints you apply, I agree that one gallon is approximately correct. That is for the entire day, not just trail time. But with the availability of water filters today, why try to carry it all?

During the days of boil only, one of the worst feelings was arriving in camp with empty water bottles, knowing it would be at least another two hours before there will be a cool drink available.

But today you don’t need to carry it all. You can fairly quickly filter water in a minute or two that is immediately drinkable. If you hydrate well during breakfast and know that drinkable water is going to be readily available very soon after arriving at your destination you can carry less; especially if you are know that your path will take you past a water source. Just stop for a few minutes and filter some new. By the way, I wouldn’t rely on just filtering unless the water source was readily and quickly flowing or from a lake.

[DonNewcomb]

But with the availability of water filters today, why try to carry it all?

I agree but that wasn't the question. I just assumed that the OP was going to some place with no water at all. You will also find some neurotics who refuse to drink anything that didn't come with a brand name attached. Such people should never venture into the outback. Who knows?

[Tampico]

But with the availability of water filters today, why try to carry it all?

While I was on the island in August 2007, some sort of algae bloom was affecting the inland lakes and making people pretty sick. Even the best filters weren't enough to make the water safe to drink. Boiling didn't work either.

At every dock we stopped at, we witnessed people coming out of the bush either sick or pretty danged thirsty.

I don't think you can "carry it all," but you should carry a reserve to back up your filter.

[Midwest Ed]

I was trying to raise the possibility that not carrying it all could be an option, given proper planning and of course accurate knowledge and situational awareness.

I am somewhat dismayed by prospects of the statement that "boiling didn't work either." There are some organisms that require temperatures greater than boiling at close to sea level temperatures to kill off (e.g. Clostridium botulinum causing Botulism).

I'm not at all suggesting this was the culpret, only pointing out that there are bacteria that are not killed by open pot boiling. This is of course why there are pressure cookers, further elevating temperatures to about 240 Deg F. I would be very interested to hear what was going on there.

I would think that boiling (for viruses) AND filtering for oddball bacteria should work OK (or filtering AND chemical treatment).

I always hated drinking boiled lake water since it ends up tasting like a really bad soup.

And then there is the question of how big should a lake be along with the concern of adequate fresh water "turnover" before the lake is considered just a big puddle.

[Tampico]

Midwest Ed, boiling will not remove toxins. As the organisms die and decay, they release toxins into the water.

I never did find out what kind of algae was the culprit. Even the rangers didn't know at the time. They had sent samples to Houghton for testing.

We occasionally have blue-green (cyanobacterial) algae problems here in the Twin Cities. Sadly, it kills a lot of dogs after they drink out of an affected lake. It can make you feel sick just breathing the air around an affected lake, too.

[Midwest Ed]

I don’t believe I said boiling should have been sufficient. Not knowing the specifics, I was speculating whether or not either boiling AND filtering or boiling AND chemical treatment would have been sufficient.

I’m no microbiologist, just an engineer. Bacterial toxins which I think are actually proteins (very small) or peptides (very very small) require a filtration system in the range of 0.1 to 0.002 microns which is orders of magnitude beyond standard backpacking units. It seems an absorption system might be called for (like charcoal or something more specific).

For some bacterial toxins much longer boiling (several minutes) may work or higher temperatures will (pressure cooker).

It seems the blue-green algae you described produces a toxin called Saxitoxin that “attacks the nervous system and has a paralyzing effect, but causes no symptoms in the gastro-intestinal tract.”

http://www.opcw.org/about-chemical-weap ... nt/toxins/


But here is a contradicting citation about the same blue-green algae (i.e. a different toxin called microcystins that attacks the liver)

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/17 ... index.html


So based on the above citations and the symptoms you described it seems some other culprit was at large.

Maybe it boils down to (no pun intended) not drinking from sources that resemble large puddles. I would be curious if the NPS ever published any results

~Ed

[Tampico]

I was only trying to relate my experiences.

I'm not an expert by any means.

My apologies for any perceived slight. I'm sure you have a much better grasp on this than I.

[Midwest Ed]

No worries, none taken. It's important to be as specific and accurate as possible on such an important topic as one's health.

I feel I need to apologize for inadvertently hijacking the thread that started out simply about hydration.

~Ed

[DonNewcomb]

While I was on the island in August 2007, some sort of algae bloom was affecting the inland lakes and making people pretty sick. Even the best filters weren't enough to make the water safe to drink. Boiling didn't work either.

That's pretty scary. We normally use a simple "Hikers Friend" style light-weight filter. My brother and I have often camped on sand islands where our "fresh" water came from shallow puddles covered with algae. We've never experienced a problem. Dumb luck, maybe?

[ffinmich]

Well how safe is the water, some say filter, some say other things,
Thanks for all the info