Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Questions about trails and campsites on the island.

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ulmer1
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Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by ulmer1 »

I am putting together a trip on IR. There will be 8 of us, 59-68 yrs. old. (We backpacked 55 miles in Yosemite last Sept. over 6 days, so we are fairly experienced.) Plan to arrive via ferry from Copper Harbor to Rock Harbor on 9/10/12 and returning to CH on 9/17/12. Looking for any/all suggestions on what trails to travel/pts. of interest not to miss, best fishing holes, etc. We are thinking about bringing canoes/kayaks, but not sure if we should stick to hiking. Doubt if we will ever be back, have other National Parks on Bucket List to get to. All replies appreciated!! Thanks! John
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by Nick »

I'd split the 8 of you, so you aren't considered a "group" and that would allow you to use shelters, although that time of the year, I suspect it won't be busy.

As an "old guy" (JohnH, don't touch that line), I think that I would do Three Mile the first night (take the Tobin Harbor Trail,it's easier on the knees). Then on to Daisy Farm the second day. Up to the Greenstone to McCargo Cove for night three. Fish McCargo, too. Then to Lake Richie for night 4 and fish Richie. Then down to Moskey Basin for night 5. Daisy Farm or Three Mile for Day 6. Then to Rock Harbor to catch the ferry home.

Don't be surprised if you end up coming back again and again.
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by Ingo »

Hey John, welcome to the forums. If you aren't aware of the group camping regs on I.R., a group is defined as 7-10 people. They require a permit before you arrive, you may only camp at designated group sites, and you must stick to your defined itinerary. Parties of 6 or less simply register and fill out an itinerary upon arrival, but you do not have to stick to it. As Nick points out, non-groups have use of shelters at some campgrounds--the group campsites are tent only. I think the only campground in that area that does not have a group site is Lane Cove. For obvious reasons, if you go as 2 parties and not as a group, you probably won't be able to register with the same itineraries. Not sure if they're as strict about it in the low-season.

I'd probably leave the boats, unless you're all experienced on the water and that's what you really want to do. The weather patterns generally start to deteriorate in Sept and increase the odds of being wind/weather bound.

There's plenty of campgrounds and options to let you plan appropriate mileage. East Chickenbone is the one CG most everyone says to avoid. Moskey Basin, Chippewa Harbor, McCargoe Cove, and Lane Cove are favorites. Lane Cove is the most difficult trail with a significant climb out. Mt Franklin has a great view of the Canadian shoreline and both sides of the island (on a clear day of course). Lake Richie and Chickenbone are good fishing spots, as are McCargoe and Chippewa. The mine near McCargoe is interesting to explore. If you stay a night at Rock Harbor, I love the hike out to Scoville Pt.

You really can't go wrong whatever you settle on. Check out The Greenstone (the park's annual "newspaper") for a lot of good info and get the Trails Illustrated map if you don't have it.
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by ulmer1 »

Thanks Nick and Ingo!! Here's a possible itinerary that I put together after digging deeper into other people's messages and/or comments: (as a reminder, we will be on the Island 9/10 - 17)

Day One: Rock Harbor to Daisy Farm (can we get there and set up before dark in mid-Sept.?)
Day Two: Daisy Farm to McCargoe Cove
Day Three: McCargoe Cove to Chippewa Harbor
Day Four: Chippewa Harbor to Moskey Basin
Day Five: Stay at Moskey Basin
Day Six: Moskey Basin to Lane Cove
Day Seven: Lane Cove to Threemile
Day Eight: Threemile to Rock Harbor to catch the ferry back to Copper Harbor

I am trying to see as much as possible without killing us, but is this too much? If so, what to cut out? It looks like IR is significantly less demanding that what we did at Yosemite. Replies welcome from anybody/everybody!! Thanks!!
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by Nick »

My mantra for any visit to Isle Royale is hike less; enjoy more. Your itinerary is pretty energetic and, having done hikes like that in the past when I was a young pup, and I think that slowing down will allow you to do more fishing, enjoying the sights, etc. Some of the best times I've had at IR is just to spend an extra day at a campsite (Chippewa Harbor is fun to explore--there is an old school house and a couple of old dumps) and just enjoy the environment. I've actually base camped and day hiked on more than one occasion.

That's my two cents.
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by ulmer1 »

Nick - If I were to up the ante and ask for another two cents worth, by scratching Lane Cove altogether, which is what you are suggesting, which one of these would you recommend:

# 1 Day One - Rock Harbor to Threemile # 2 - Same
Day Two - Threemile to McCargoe Cove - Same (increases trail mileage 50% from 1st itinerary)
Day Three - McCargoe Cove to Lake Ritchie - Same
Day Four - Lake Ritchie to Chippewa Harbor - Same
Day Five - Chippewa Harbor to Moskey Basin - Stay at CH another day
Day Six - Stay at Moskey Basin another day - CH to Moskey Basin
Day Seven - Moskey Basin to Threemile - Same
Day Eight - Threemile to Rock Harbor - Same

Basically I am asking which location we should stay an extra day. Besides Mt. Franklin, are their other sights not to miss on the Ridge? Other than more hiking on Day 2, it appears most other days are shorter (I think!) except CH to MB and Day 7, which are the same from my original. If you have other thoughts, don't hesitate to offer them! Thanks!!
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by ulmer1 »

One other question, will we need a fishing license for the Harbors, Coves and Basins? I understand that you definitely need one if fishing Lake Superior, but wasn't 100% certain if these bodies of water were considered part of Lake Superior or were part of the inland waters. Since they don't end in Lake, like Ritchie Lake I assume we wll need one, but just wanted to make sure.
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by IncaRoads »

You are correct; you need a Michigan fishing license to fish any body of water that connects with Lake Superior.

You can purchase a Michigan fishing license on line if you desire...
http://www.mdnr-elicense.com/Welcome/Default.aspx
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by ulmer1 »

IncaRoads - Thanks for your reply! I assumed that was the case, but was hoping to save a few dollars if possible.
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by Midwest Ed »

It’s probably fair to say that on average the trails on Isle Royale are not as difficult as Yosemite. The overall elevations and elevation transitions are lower than Yosemite. But there are stretches of IR trails that can be quite tiring and challenging. The trail from Three Mile to Moskey Basin is a good example (as is the shoreline trail from Rock Harbor to Three Mile). It generally follows an old ice age shoreline (now in the woods) and has a good deal of up and down with more than its share of poor footing due to rocky glacial till and many exposed tree roots. The up and down combined with the increased visual and mental attention needed to avoid ankle twisting will slow you down a bit. I’m probably making it sound worse than it really is.

Your revised plan to stay at Three Mile the first night offers some distinct advantages given your planned route. Your can now take the Greenstone Ridge all the way to McCargoe Cove. Even though the mileage will be about 13 miles, the Greenstone Ridge route (once you get up there) is an easier walk with more scenic views (assuming clear weather); although in September it might be colder and windy up there. You’ll still get to experience the old shoreline trail but on your way back and you will be avoiding any back tracking.

BTW, you can get Michigan fishing licenses valid for 1 day or 3 days. There was no discount on the 3 day vs. the 1 day. And I never could figure out a way to avoid or delay setting the effective dates when purchased in order to allow a flexible activation. Maybe it is possible. An annual license ($42 including $8 Trout/Salmon stamp) was the same price as 6 days. In 2011 it was basically $7/day.

I know you guys will have a blast. In September you will have no worries about bugs. Take a good sweater though.
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by Redbad »

One more thing to plan for in September is unexpected stays due to the ferry not running. The IR Queen will not run if waves on Lake Superior exceed 10-12 feet (as they did over Labor Day 2011). This could mean that you are unable to leave Copper Harbor or you will be unable to leave Rock Harbor. This can be bad if the beer runs out at the lodge.... The Ranger III out of Houghton will run, but 6 hours of 10-12 foot waves will ruin your hiking plans and make you green in the gills.

While Rock Harbor and McCargoe Cove are protected from most weather, it is possible depending on the wind direction to have seas run 6 feet or more in the harbors which would mean that paddling would be difficult or dangerous.

I concur on taking the Tobin Harbor trail to 3 mile. It is much less technical than the Rock Harbor trail and by starting early you should have no problems getting to McCargoe by early/mid afternoon (even with some Moose sightings) and since you will be passing E Chickenbone campground (it is literally right off the trail). Plan on taking enough water on all days as the Greenstone is dry until you get past the E Chickenbone campground.

I found ISRO to be the most intimate NP that I have gone to and you may well want to return.
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by Ingo »

Choosing between Moskey Basin and Chippewa Harbor for a layover day is a tough one for me. Both are beautiful. At Moskey the shelters are right on the water looking out over the bay--great for just hanging out. Chippewa gives the opportunity to explore the rugged Superior shoreline. I'd probably go for Chippewa, but I know others would pick Moskey. Don't know that one or the other has a fishing advantage. Bad news is this isn't much help--good news is you can't go wrong with either :D.
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by ulmer1 »

Thanks Ingo, Redbad and Midwest Ed for your replies!! This certainly helps, especially those regarding trail conditions/changes, possible weather related ferry issues, fishing licenses AND of course beer at the Lodge.
Couple of responses; in Yosemite we had days with 2,500' + elevation changes, plus different sections up to a mile of nothing but cobblestones to walk on so I, again, assume from what I can see, that IR won't be that demanding.
Plus, my assumption is that the Lodge will be closed when we arrive on September 10, so, if correct, available beer will be a non-issue. This is a snag unless we are allowed to bring some with us on the ferry?
The chance of the ferry not running due to lake conditions, which I never thought of, could be a concern obviously both over and back. Am I correct to assume that it would cross, weather permitting, the next day?
Also regarding fishing licenses, although I was not able to get to the proper location to purchase online, can I assume that we could declare which three days we wanted to be legal, but probably have to be consecutive?
Keep any and all replies coming!! This is a great way for me/us to gather information and get answers! Greatly appreciated!!
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by Ingo »

ulmer1 wrote: Plus, my assumption is that the Lodge will be closed when we arrive on September 10, so, if correct, available beer will be a non-issue. This is a snag unless we are allowed to bring some with us on the ferry?
Yup, you're correct. Bringing it on the boat isn't an issue, but carrying it may be (and packing out empties)! I usually bring a little of the more condensed stuff in a Platypus...
ulmer1 wrote:The chance of the ferry not running due to lake conditions, which I never thought of, could be a concern obviously both over and back. Am I correct to assume that it would cross, weather permitting, the next day?!
Not much you can do about mother nature except be aware and prepared. The boat not running on schedule is certainly the exception but it does happen. Usually will be the next day, although it has taken a couple of days at least once in the past (BIG storm). The operators will make up runs as quickly as they are able. Bringing an extra day of food would be a good idea, esp. since the store and restaurant will be closed that time of year.
ulmer1 wrote:Also regarding fishing licenses, although I was not able to get to the proper location to purchase online, can I assume that we could declare which three days we wanted to be legal, but probably have to be consecutive?!
Doesn't have to be consecutive. The daily licenses are literally that, one day at a time, so you can get them for every other day, or whatever works for your itinerary.
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Re: Ist Time "Seniors" Need Advice

Post by ulmer1 »

Thanks Ingo for the info! I totally understand your "packing," concerns, plus your "condensed" suggestion. Have used that approach in past outings.
Probably not a refrigerator and/or ice making machine at Threemile? Some of us prefer colder beer (what's the water temp. in Sept.?) and having our "condensed" on the rocks (not that cold I am sure!)
I am certain that there will be other questions in the future, but all of you have been extremely helpful thus far!
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