Obnoxious boaters

Questions about trails and campsites on the island.

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philranger
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Obnoxious boaters

Post by philranger »

I recently completed my 6th trip to IR and encountered something very unpleasant. Around 6:30 p.m. four motorboats pulled into McCargo Cove and took over the dock. They set up grills, drank beer, talked smart, howled at the moon and basically ruined our "solitude". I finally went down to the dock and asked them to tone it down a bit, but got hit with phrases like "We have just as much right to be here as you", "We paid a lot of money to come here", "Do you want some weed?"

Has anyone ever had to deal with Asshats like this? I got pictures and plan to send a letter to the Park Superintendent, but really want to know what I could have done that night. There were about 15 guys on the dock.
Isle Royale Trips: 2005-RH to Windigo via Greenstone. 2006-McCargoe Cove to Chippewa Harbor. 2007-RH to Daisy Farm and back. 2008-Feltmann loop. 2009-McCargoe Cove to Chippewa Harbor. 2013-Minong Ridge. 2014-Windigo+Huginnin Cove. 2015-Lookout Louise to LC to DF to MB. 2018-McCargoe to Todd to HL to Malone Bay. 2021-Windigo/Huginnin. 2022-RH-DF-MB-CH
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by drobarge »

Can you PM me the pics please. I am an Island boater and it's a fairly small community.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by fonixmunkee »

I'm seeing more & more problems with boaters on Isle Royale. I just saw last week the pictures posted on the forums of the boat tied up in the portage point near Chippewa. Sounds like the sequestration has taken the NPS' ability to properly maintain order. Maybe boaters know this and are taking advantage of it. Either way, it's truly a sad time on Isle Royale.

I can't tell you what I'd do if I ran into an event like this. I have all I can do when I have to tell someone to please stop letting their shelter door slam. If I had boaters ruining my solitude, I don't think I'd do anything terribly appropriate, that's for sure...it's the "fight fire with fire" mentality, I guess.

So GOOD FOR YOU for documenting the problem. I would go ahead and submit a complaint to the NPS regardless of what you find out here on the forums. The NPS should be made aware of these issues when they occur (and with as much documentation as possible) to help establish a pattern of rude boaters. Maybe then, they'll either take enforcement of boaters' regulations more seriously, or be able to prove to Mother NPS that they need more help in enforcement.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by MikeT »

So sorry to hear that :( There were problems @10+ years ago and the park service setup "no alcohol" zones at McCargoe Cove and other docks. I do not envy your position and there is not much you can do besides ask nice, get pictures and/or boat license number. With Amygdaloid ranger station closed, even a call on the radio would not help (plus they might hear it, but that may cause them to leave :D )

I have to say, in my experience, the bad boaters are in the small minority and the boaters I have met with have been great.

I do not see any reason not to post the pictures here so others might be forewarned when seeing them.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by Gimp »

philranger wrote:Has anyone ever had to deal with Asshats like this?
Yes!

I diverted this discussion thread a couple of weeks ago: http://isleroyaleforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2266
One of the NPS rangers is in contact with me and has been asking for more details. They're at peak visitor season right now so I think they are dealing with this as they can get to it. I took pictures of the offending two boats that I had to deal with and that helped as it also provided boat registration information. The rangers will want you to tell them the standard who, what, when, and where information so details are important.

McCargo Cove seems to amplify the slightest noise from the dock area and the orientation of the shelters just captures all of that so I can imagine how unpleasant your experience was. I have nothing against boaters and enjoyed talking to several of them, but it only takes a few with a sound system and alcohol to put a damper on the positive nature experience for many others.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by irhikers »

While we did not witness it, we were told that the weekend of August 3-4 there were some problems with the behavior of some boaters at McCargoe. When the Voyaguer had made her stop on 8/3 at the dock, there was gear sitting on the dock (coolers, stove, etc.), but no boat. In this case, it was our understanding that a ranger took action to deal the boaters, unfortunately not once, but on two separate occassions. When we stayed overnight at McCargoe 8/6 before heading down the Minong Trail, there were no boaters overnighting at the dock and it was pretty peaceful.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by Gimp »

philranger - I have sent you a PM with contact information for an IR Ranger who would like to hear from you.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by drobarge »

This is a touchy situation. Boater or backpacker there really is no difference- bad apples in every bunch- I am both a hiker and a boater. I need to think on this a while yet, that being said- I don't think rules and enforcement is the answer. My initial thought is that better communication may be the right course. Establishing a culture in how boaters and hikers interact could be key in my opinion. How to go about that will require some brainstorming.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by zims »

Hmm. If I may add my opinion. Signs do not work. So adding more signage to areas about quiet time and alcohol will probably not work. I have made comments to people "accidently" dropping toilet lids in privys, and slamming doors on shelters, as I pass them I will say something in regards to hearing it. Sometimes I think they mentally don't acknowledge the act. It is irritating, and disturbing. In my opinion to keep the Island as natural as it can be, more people should do just that, take pictures of them, and the boat and perhaps video what it is that is disturbing. Turn it in to the proper people when you meet with the rangers before departing. I have always said that the people you meet on the trail WANT to be there, only a few bad apples spoil the bunch. I just believe its ok to mention the little fact that they are spoiling your solitude, with their noise. it can be done tactfully and polite. And if I ever forget and do such things, please someone YELL at me!!!
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by Lucky Chicken »

zims wrote:Hmm. If I may add my opinion. Signs do not work. So adding more signage to areas about quiet time and alcohol will probably not work. I have made comments to people "accidently" dropping toilet lids in privys, and slamming doors on shelters, as I pass them I will say something in regards to hearing it. Sometimes I think they mentally don't acknowledge the act. It is irritating, and disturbing. In my opinion to keep the Island as natural as it can be, more people should do just that, take pictures of them, and the boat and perhaps video what it is that is disturbing. Turn it in to the proper people when you meet with the rangers before departing. I have always said that the people you meet on the trail WANT to be there, only a few bad apples spoil the bunch. I just believe its ok to mention the little fact that they are spoiling your solitude, with their noise. it can be done tactfully and polite. And if I ever forget and do such things, please someone YELL at me!!!
I agree, I don't want you to disrupt my experience and I don't want to disrupt yours. Let me know if I do it unintentionally and for those that don't respect your experience when you point it out and keep doing what they are doing... report them!
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by Tampico »

I hate to read things like this. I really do.

As a boater, I have two problems here: I don't want to be lumped in with a minority that behaves badly because I don't, and I also don't like the attitude that boaters should not be welcome in the park, which seems to creep in discussions like this.

I have the same right to visit the park as anyone else. Just because I visit by boat doesn't change that. I do not have the right to behave badly. When anyone violates the park rules, it should be reported. That's what the Rangers, in particular the Law Enforcement Rangers, are for.

Secondly, tying up to a dock does not constitute "taking over" anything. Docks are for boats. That's why they are there. What else are we supposed to do? Sure, I could sit on the hook somewhere, but I like access to pit toilets and grills just as much as the next guy.

The island is really no different from your neighborhood in this regard. If your neighbor is being obnoxious, you call the police and let them deal with it.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by Lucky Chicken »

Tampico wrote:I hate to read things like this. I really do.

As a boater, I have two problems here: I don't want to be lumped in with a minority that behaves badly because I don't, and I also don't like the attitude that boaters should not be welcome in the park, which seems to creep in discussions like this.

I have the same right to visit the park as anyone else. Just because I visit by boat doesn't change that. I do not have the right to behave badly. When anyone violates the park rules, it should be reported. That's what the Rangers, in particular the Law Enforcement Rangers, are for.

Secondly, tying up to a dock does not constitute "taking over" anything. Docks are for boats. That's why they are there. What else are we supposed to do? Sure, I could sit on the hook somewhere, but I like access to pit toilets and grills just as much as the next guy.

The island is really no different from your neighborhood in this regard. If your neighbor is being obnoxious, you call the police and let them deal with it.
I don't think we are saying no boaters... we are saying no obnoxious people, however they get there. I was section hiking a piece of the AT and one of the shelters had a group that was blairing music and being obnoxious, they got there on foot but I sure told them to tone it down. The bad apples ruin it for everyone, we just need to do our part to help reduce their impact.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by johnhens »

I don't think anyone is saying no boaters. I have run into hikers that were noisy and paddlers that were pigs. I have had many good experiences with boaters who appreciate IR's quiet and get why so many return. If you want to party and howl at the moon do it elsewhere.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by Gimp »

johnhens wrote:I don't think anyone is saying no boaters. .
I agree. I don't mind the boaters and enjoyed talking to several of them. As a solo backpacker / canoe visitor it gives me a little bit of comfort to see a boat at one of the Lake Superior campsites. Frankly, I see the boaters as a fall back communications / evacuation resource should I have a medical emergency when I'm out by myself. When I was at the Malone Bay campsite I was alone until a cabin cruiser pulled in for a few hours and I chatted with the two couples on board. After they left two boats of fishermen came in. I didn't even notice them until I walked down to the dock. They had music that I couldn't hear beyond the foot of the dock, they were drinking but didn't get loud, and we had a nice talk about the fishing, the weather, etc. One of them told me how they helped to hydrate and feed a sick boy scout (at McCargo I believe) a few days before. I saw a lot of boats at IR, but only two managed to do something that interupted my enjoyment of the environment and I certainly do not lump the other 95% or more of the boats in with them. Backpackers, canoe /kayakers, boaters, and lodge guests are all part of the mix that makes an Isle Royale trip interesting in my opinion.

As a side note, the ranger I communicated with on my complaint told me that they'd had a lot of complaints from McCargo. Feedback in more than one case was that the word had gotten out about the Amygdaloid station not being manned. That may have served as a magnet for the few boaters who were looking for a place to enjoy themselves a little more robustly. These same boaters have been very surprised to hear from him. I think the reports have been turned in by backpackers, canoe/kayak people, and other boaters. If nothing else, the park Superintendent now has a few more things to consider when the 2014 budget and manning decisions are made.
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Re: Obnoxious boaters

Post by johnhens »

[quote="Gimp"

As a side note, the ranger I communicated with on my complaint told me that they'd had a lot of complaints from McCargo. Feedback in more than one case was that the word had gotten out about the Amygdaloid station not being manned. That may have served as a magnet for the few boaters who were looking for a place to enjoy themselves a little more robustly. These same boaters have been very surprised to hear from him. I think the reports have been turned in by backpackers, canoe/kayak people, and other boaters. If nothing else, the park Superintendent now has a few more things to consider when the 2014 budget and manning decisions are made.[/quote]

Good for you speaking up. The Park Service cannot fix what they don't know about. In my experience the LEO's want everyone to have a good experience and will not tolerate behavior that is not in keeping with Park regs.
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