Stove and fuel choices

[LeftOvers]

What do people think of the various stove/fuel options? Which do you think make the most sense for a backpacking trip on IR? How much difference does the length of your trip make?

White gas/kerosene? Canisters? Alcohol? Solid fuel? Wood burning zip stoves? Which are the most efficient per weight (hard one when considering Canister or zip stoves, but comparing white gas, kerosene, alcohol and solid fuel)?

Another thread says kerosene delivers more BTU/pound than white gas. http://isleroyaleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=15 Is burning kerosene messier? Does it work as well as white gas in cold weather? That thread (thanks Don Newcomb) says deodorized charcoal starter fluid can be used instead of smellier versions of kerosene. Is it as efficient as standard kerosene?

Canisters? Only half the weight of a full canister is fuel. The rest you carry for the entire trip. But the stoves are much lighter. How well do they work in cold weather?

Alcohol? Again, light weight stoves. But they don't work too well in colder weather, do they? If you put out the flame with fuel left in the stove, can you pack the stove as is or do you have to put the fuel back in your fuel container?

Solid fuel? Compact stove. Can you "shut off" (suffocate) a fuel tab and use the rest another time? Are they messy (sooty)?

Wood burners? Seem to run a little heavier but you carry no fuel. Then there's spare batteries for longer trips. Are they messy?

Then there's the fuss factor. Liquid fuel stoves are probably the most involved to set up, etc. Canister, that's pretty easy. Solid fuel must be the easiest. Where do alcohol stoves fit? Wood burners have some setup, and you need to collect the wood.

And, of course, there's the safety factor. White gas - dangerous if you assembled the stove wrong or there's some other problem like leaking connections. Kerosene is less explosive than white gas, does it ignite as easily? Canister seems safe short of major user error. Wood burners - hot coals, sparks?

Myself, on IR, I just eat freeze dried meals (and instant coffee, instant soup, hot cocoa) and only need hot or boiling water. MSR white gas stoves have been my choice (after I ditched the old Svea 123). How well do you think each works for cooking and simmering? My MSR Dragonfly is (heavy, but) great at simmering.

[DonNewcomb]

What do people think of the various stove/fuel options? Which do you think make the most sense for a backpacking trip on IR? How much difference does the length of your trip make?

Alcohol is good for short trips and solo trips. Kerosene and wood burners are most efficient for long treks and large parties. Zen Stoves has some great information on fuels.

White gas/kerosene? Canisters? Alcohol? Solid fuel? Wood burning zip stoves? Which are the most efficient per weight (hard one when considering Canister or zip stoves, but comparing white gas, kerosene, alcohol and solid fuel)?

Again, see the Zen Stoves site. Wood is most efficient but is dirty. If there is any chance you'll have to cook in the tent, it's the worst possible choice.

Another thread says kerosene delivers more BTU/pound than white gas. http://isleroyaleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=15 Is burning kerosene messier? Does it work as well as white gas in cold weather? That thread (thanks Don Newcomb) says deodorized charcoal starter fluid can be used instead of smellier versions of kerosene. Is it as efficient as standard kerosene?

Kerosene is used by above-tree-line campers who need to met snow for water. It's the most efficient fuel you can carry. Once it gets going it works as well as (or better than) white gas. For IR, kerosene is one fuel I believe you can't buy on the island.

Canisters? Only half the weight of a full canister is fuel. The rest you carry for the entire trip. But the stoves are much lighter. How well do they work in cold weather?

Well, define "cold". Isobutane is OK. You may need to carry a small insulating pad to set the canister on to keep the cold ground or snow from cooling the fuel. Also, a multi-fuel stove with a hose can work better because you can turn the canister upside-down and run liquid fuel to the burner. Also, you move the canister to inside your jacket or sleeping bag for a half hour before you need it to prewarm it. It's really the most convenient fuel.

Alcohol? Again, light weight stoves. But they don't work too well in colder weather, do they? If you put out the flame with fuel left in the stove, can you pack the stove as is or do you have to put the fuel back in your fuel container?

They work great in cold weather. The home of alcohol stoves is Finland. You don't want to use the metal burner directly on the snow. You can return the cool unused fuel to the canister. Some alcohol burners seal shut so the fuel does not leak out.

Solid fuel? Compact stove. Can you "shut off" (suffocate) a fuel tab and use the rest another time? Are they messy (sooty)?

No personal experience.

Wood burners? Seem to run a little heavier but you carry no fuel. Then there's spare batteries for longer trips. Are they messy?

Very, very, very messy. You keep your stove and pots in double zip-loc bags. They smoke. You can't use them in a tent (or shelter). Not good for a quick cup of tea or coffee. You can simmer, melt snow like crazy and have a nice little "campfire" glow if you like. Batteries are not a big deal.

Then there's the fuss factor. Liquid fuel stoves are probably the most involved to set up, etc. Canister, that's pretty easy. Solid fuel must be the easiest. Where do alcohol stoves fit? Wood burners have some setup, and you need to collect the wood.

Actually, in my experience, wood stoves have the highest "fuss factor". Butane probably the least.

And, of course, there's the safety factor. White gas - dangerous if you assembled the stove wrong or there's some other problem like leaking connections. Kerosene is less explosive than white gas, does it ignite as easily? Canister seems safe short of major user error. Wood burners - hot coals, sparks?

Gasoline probably has the highest "bomb" risk, wood the least. Boy Scouts aren't allowed to use liquid fuel stoves on their own. With all of them you have to know what you are doing.

Myself, on IR, I just eat freeze dried meals (and instant coffee, instant soup, hot cocoa) and only need hot or boiling water. MSR white gas stoves have been my choice (after I ditched the old Svea 123). How well do you think each works for cooking and simmering? My MSR Dragonfly is (heavy, but) great at simmering.

Svea 123 is not good simmering. Never use any gaskets or O-rings you buy at the local hardware store. If the seals fail you have a bomb. A friend of my brother was seriously burned using a 123 with a jury-rigged gasket.

[alecto73]

My kitchen is pretty simple since I'm just a water boiler. I make coffee and oatmeal in the mornings, and Mountain House Pro-Paks for dinner. I don't heat anything for lunches. There is still a little fuel left in the 4 ounce canister I took on my trip to IR 5/5 through 5/10. The coldest trip I've taken with my Soto was in the mid 20's at breakfast and I had no trouble with it. My friend's Pocket Rocket was much fussier so I think the micro-regulator may help. I have not tried non-canister stoves yet. I have a curiosity for them and I probably will try them all eventually but I find canister set-ups to be very little fuss for the basic water heating I need to do.
http://www.sotooutdoors.com/products/item/OD-1R.html
http://www.sotooutdoors.com/products/item/OD-1RW.html
http://www.evernewamerica.com/ECA266.htm
http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/st ... ro/product
Ti Ware Long-Handle Spoon (apparently REI no longer has them online)

[backpackingZombie]

Jet Boil. Always my Jet Boil

[Redbad]

Your stove choice depends on what you want to do with your stove. If all you want to do is to heat water to use to rehydrate Mountain House type meals an alcohol or butane stove will be all you need. You could also use a solid fuel like Esbit.

If you want to cook meals (say fry the fish that you caught), then you will need a stove that you can control the heat with (ie. simmer). An example of this would be a MSR Dragonfly stove.

I use the example of the Dragonfly because that is one of the stoves that I have. It burns white gas, kerosene, diesel, unleaded gas, 2 stroke gas, and possibly other flammable liquid petrochemicals. (Note: a Dragonfly stove is LOUD and it will be heard by other campers. It may not be the best choice of stove to use on ISRO because of its noise).

I have no experience cooking over a fire on ISRO (my attempt at Little Todd using soggy birch was an utter failure).

Of the fuels that you list that I have experience with (solid, butane, and white gas/ kerosene) here is my take:

Solid fuel (Esbit) works well to heat water (but rarely to boiling). My experience is that it takes one full tablet to heat 16oz of water to near boiling in about 12-15 minutes. It leaves a residue on the bottom of your cup/pot. It is very subject to wind or breeze (if there is a breeze it will blow the flame around and it will be difficult to heat your pot/cup. Unused portions can be reused (but since I use the full tablet, it is rare that I have reused a tablet). I normally consider Esbit fuel to be a back up to other methods of heating water.

Butane works well. The stove sits on the canister and is similar to a bunsen burner. Heating water to boiling takes 4-5 minutes and you get about 30 minutes of burn time out of a 4oz canister and perhaps 60 minutes out of a 8oz canister. You may be able to heat water faster with a heat exchanger. It burns clean.

White Gas is the best bang for the buck. It burns clean. It is an efficient fuel (even with cold Lake Superior water, I was able to get 2l to boil in around 6 minutes). 1l of fuel lasted me 2 weeks on ISRO with some left over.

Kerosene may be an even better bang for the buck. However, you will need to use an accellerent like Fire Paste to get Kerosene lit. It is not as clean as white gas and leaves a residue on pots. I have had problems with flame outs (note that even with a flame out there is pressurized fuel shooting from your stove and there is a GREAT POSSIBILITY that you will have a fire in a location other than your stove on any surface that is hot enough to ignite kerosene -- DO NOT USE IN A SHELTER!!!!!). Kerosene will gum your filters in your stove, so be prepared to field strip your stove and replace the filters.

I am not a great fan of Mountain Home type food -- they are great for weekends or short trips but I dislike them for long trips. If you like dehydrated food, then stick to alcohol, butane or Esbit fueled stoves. If you want to cook or need to be able to control the heat on your stove, then look into a white gas or multi-fuel stove. Zen stoves is a great resource.

[Ingo]

... If you want to cook meals (say fry the fish that you caught), then you will need a stove that you can control the heat with (ie. simmer). An example of this would be a MSR Dragonfly stove.

While canister stoves have a historic reputation for poor simmering and heat control, I recently had great results cooking pancakes with an MSR Microrocket. Almost as good heat control as my old Coleman single burner white gas. i think the newer ones are a lot better and don't necessarily deserve the reputation (but I'd read reviews carefully).

[alecto73]

i think the newer ones are a lot better and don't necessarily deserve the reputation (but I'd read reviews carefully).

+1(+1)

[slosteppin]

My first trip to IR we used white gas. The second trip we used Canister stoves. Next month I will use a Solo stove woodburner with alcohol as backup. Most likely I will use wood each night and alcohol for morning coffee. I've been using this system for over two years. Alcohol is NOT sold on the island. Using just one ounce a day I easily carry enough for 12 days.

I don't find the wood burner especially messy - just fun to use. I do wrap my stove and kettle in plastic grocery sacks.

The last trip we stayed in a shelter at Rock Harbor the last two nights. We found several partially used canisters.

[DonNewcomb]

Alcohol is NOT sold on the island. Using just one ounce a day I easily carry enough for 12 days.

When I asked about this the only alcohol available came as small bottles of fuel line dryer, which is expensive, high-test isopropyl. I've tested isopropyl and while it burns, it also smokes a lot.

[hooky]

Methyl alcohol burns hot, clean and completely. Look for heet in the yellow bottle. The downside is that it's methyl alcohol. You don't want to spill it or get it on you. I carry it in a squirt bottle like this.



We use around 7.5 oz's to do 10 meals for the 2 of us. That boils a quart of water at each meal.