Unfounded Safety Concerns

Questions about trails and campsites on the island.

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hooky
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Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by hooky » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:47 am

I'm a member of the Island's facebook page and I've noticed recently that there is no shortage of people asking questions and offering advice who fall into 2 categories.
  • Parents of children between the ages of 8 and 15 who are staying at the lodge and are concerned if their kids are old enough to handle the day hikes near the lodge.
  • People who have seemingly never been to the island, but offer advice that it's too dangerous to venture away from the lodge with kids unless you have an emergency beacon like a Spot or Inreach or even a guide.
I understand the first group. I had young kids once and was worried about their safety when we went on adventures. I'd actually commend them for taking their kids in the first place, since they're not experienced but still want to expose their kids to the wilderness.

The second group blows me away. It's sad that they'll interject themselves into something of which they know nothing from firsthand experience, but instead come at it from a position of ignorance and a need to seemingly have a position of implied authority.

I'm starting to see these inexperienced, but well meaning parents, start to feed off the anxiety of others. Does the park have a program for youngsters who are there with parents who aren't hikers, but want their children to experience the island?


JerryB
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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by JerryB » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:03 pm

I am on the Facebook page as well. In fact, I just posted and pasted the URL for the Forum. The quality of advice on that page is not very good.


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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by Midwest Ed » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:09 pm

Helicopter parents are everywhere. It can be difficult to watch.
8 trips, 1975 x 2, 1976 x 2, 1978, 1985, 2000, 2013

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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by JavaHiker » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:29 pm

You must be looking at a fake Isle Royale Facebook business page or a private Isle Royale Facebook group page. There is nothing like what you describe on the official National Park Service Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Isle-Royale-Na ... 610664143/. The NPS Facebook page is well organized, contains great information, and is what you would expect from the professionals.

From checking the park's official website (nps.gov/isro) there are a number of programs and activities specifically for youth, including a Junior Ranger program which allows youth to earn a Junior Ranger badge. I'd suggest sending additional questions about this directly to the National Park Service itself rather than posting in public forum, since that is the agency that manages the park and provides those services and you will get a direct and correct response.

In regards to the intent of your post, there are also people here who post incessantly but have visited Isle Royale only once or twice. They randomly comment about areas of the park they have never have been to, about skills they obviously do not have, or assumptions they make based on limited knowledge. It goes both ways.

FYI - The fake Facebook sites are set up to fool people into "liking", following, or joining thier group, so the site's owners can make money from selling ads.

You get what you fall for...
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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by JerryB » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:55 pm

The Facebook page referenced here is a private group page and not the NPS page


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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by JerryB » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:57 pm

By the way, it is not a fake page. Just a private group. It does not pretend to be anything else.

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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by JavaHiker » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:53 pm

Then why refer to it as the "Islands Facebook page" from the start? That is false. It seems to ridicule people with specific questions, intentionally obfuscate any intended argument being made, and avoids the fact that there is a legitimate source for information.

If it were to simply refer to what it actually is, a fan site, then the arguement would at least appear somewhat more logical, if not misdirected....
"Observe. Absorb. Create. Share."

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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by hooky » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:27 pm

My mistake, I shouldn't have referred to it as the Island's facebook page, but rather an Island private group page.

That said, it doesn't change the intent of my post.

I appreciate your opinion, but respectfully don't agree with your conclusions and suggestions.


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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by JerryB » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:40 am

Well, this string has turned a bit dark. Hooky, I think you raise an interesting point about the Facebook group. Some of the posts are worrisome because they seem to suggest a lack of basic knowledge. I hope that is just a function of people being brief in their posts. I think all we can do is offer this forum as a resource. I personally enjoy visiting that group, just like I enjoy reading posts here. Thanks for bringing this up.

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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by hooky » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:31 am

Thanks Jerry. I enjoy that group too. There are some fantastic pictures that get posted there on a regular basis during the season. I've suggested this forum quite a few times for adults asking questions about routes, gear, etc...

The wilderness ranger program sounds like something that would maybe be of interest, but there isn't a lot of detail about it.
The Wilderness Ranger program is for youth ages 12-17 (or those at heart). Complete the Wilderness Ranger booklet during an overnight backcountry stay. Upon completion, youth will receive a Wilderness Ranger badge.

the junior ranger program has a link to the booklet, but there's no link for the wilderness ranger booklet. i was hoping someone here might have some experience with programs for kids and could fill in the detail. I don't know enough about it to offer any meaningful input to some of the people posting there.


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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by Tortuga » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:11 am

JavaHiker wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:53 pm
Then why refer to it as the "Islands Facebook page" from the start? That is false. It seems to ridicule people with specific questions, intentionally obfuscate any intended argument being made, and avoids the fact that there is a legitimate source for information.

If it were to simply refer to what it actually is, a fan site, then the arguement would at least appear somewhat more logical, if not misdirected....
:roll:

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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by JavaHiker » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:12 pm

Tortuga wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:11 am
JavaHiker wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:53 pm
Then why refer to it as the "Islands Facebook page" from the start? That is false. It seems to ridicule people with specific questions, intentionally obfuscate any intended argument being made, and avoids the fact that there is a legitimate source for information.

If it were to simply refer to what it actually is, a fan site, then the arguement would at least appear somewhat more logical, if not misdirected....
:roll:
:roll:
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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by torpified » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:40 am

I know facebook was incidental to the real point of the opening post, but for what it's worth, I'm also going to start trying to direct a subset of the adults raising questions on the private FB group there to this forum. FB is great for pictures, but this is a better platform for expressing sustained thoughts---and people here are a lot nicer to one another than the worst of the FBers. (A few days ago a woman was repeatedly mocked there for using a spreadsheet to track trail distances between camps.)

As for the real point: it seems like it might behoove the folks who run the lodge and other concessions to engineer and publicize some programming directed at youngsters (and their parents!).

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Re: Unfounded Safety Concerns

Post by hooky » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:26 am

torpified wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:40 am
I know facebook was incidental to the real point of the opening post, but for what it's worth, I'm also going to start trying to direct a subset of the adults raising questions on the private FB group there to this forum. FB is great for pictures, but this is a better platform for expressing sustained thoughts---and people here are a lot nicer to one another than the worst of the FBers. (A few days ago a woman was repeatedly mocked there for using a spreadsheet to track trail distances between camps.)

As for the real point: it seems like it might behoove the folks who run the lodge and other concessions to engineer and publicize some programming directed at youngsters (and their parents!).
And it was Ingo's spreadsheet that's in the sticky here too. I felt bad for the virtual beating she was taking, but came into it way after fact. She had a guy haranguing her about taking her laptop to the island of all things.

I would think the lodge could make a little extra cash with a program like that, assuming the liability isn't prohibitive.

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