first Itinerary questions for 2010

Questions about trails and campsites on the island.

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yukonjack2
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first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by yukonjack2 »

We are planning a Boy Scout trip in early August. Ya'll are not kidding when you say half the fun is in the itinerary planning.

I have poured over the maps for some time now - and come up with what I think is a great trip -
The scouts are loking to ge thteri 50 miler patches, so what a great venue to earn them in. My first question is,
what is the process/procedure for off designated campsite camping for one night?
We would like to camp on the shores of Seargent lake in our itinerary below and do a little off trail exploring.

Day 1 Rock Harbor (Edit) to Hidden Lake, Hidden Lake to Lane Cove 8.2 miles
Day 2 Lane Cove to Seargent Peninsula 7.5 miles
Day 3 Seargent Lake to E. Chickenbone 6.5 miles
Day 4 E. Chickenbone to W. Chickenbone to Lake Ritchie 7 miles
Day 5 Lake Ritchie to Chipewa Harbor 5.7 miles
Day 6 Chipewa Harbor to Moskey Basin 7.2 miles
Day 7 Moskey Basin to 3 mile 7.7 miles
Day 8 3 mile to Rock Harbor 3.6 miles, plus the stoll trail waiting for the boat 4.3 miles

for a total of 57 plus miles. Let me know what you think?
Last edited by yukonjack2 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by Ingo »

Hey Yukon,

Sounds like a good start to planning, but there may be a couple of issues. The big question is how many will be in the group? If it's more than 6 you're limited to camping at the group sites--that may dictate your itinerary as much as anything. Also, I'm not sure I'd plan the bushwacking to Sargent Lake in any case--haven't bushwacked myself, but from what little off-trail hiking I've done and from other's reports, it's not advisable and will beat you up pretty good. But I'm more a paddler than a backpacker, and I'm sure others more experienced will chime in.

If you're 6 or less, I'm not sure what the park service's criteria are for off-trail camping. It's possible, but you're expected to LNT and I'm not sure if they'll give a permit for more than 1 or 2. Again, others have more experience...

Have fun with the planning, but the trip's still the best part! :D
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by srparr »

Jack, we need some more information about your plans!

1) How many are in your group? Your itinerary will not work if you are a group (more than 6).
2) Anyone in your group ever been to the island?
3) What ages/condition are the boys? The adults?
4) Mileage looks doable, but I agree with Ingo that the bushwacking will be tough (but perhaps doable ... need others to chime in).
5) East Chickenbone is not the most scenic campsite on the island ... but that may mean you have it to yourselves!
6) Stoll is a nice trail at the end of the trip, but you might feel more like showers & burgers at the grill while you wait. If so, maybe you can pre-arrange with the rangers to give one of their famous evening talks to your group.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by yukonjack2 »

Thanx for the great information.

1) the plan was to keep the group to 4 Scouts, and 2 Adults to stay out of the group only limitation.
2) One other adult leader was on the island as a kid with his Dad/Grandad.
3)Boys are between 13 and 16, and well versed in hiking/camping - Adults as well.
We work hard at conditioning many months prior to high adventure, as well as keeping pack weights
at a reasonable level - <45 lbs adults to start, <30 for the kids including food and water
4)The other leader stayed on the peninsula at sargent lake as a kid - was hopning to get some great pike fishing in as well.
I do need to check with the park on permit process for off trail- I hope 6 is ok. LNT is no issue, as that is what we practice everywhere we camp for scouts.
5) east chickenbone offered a shorter day such that we can spend time fishing the south shore for somehting more delectable than ramen - lol.
6) stoll trail is optional - we may be beat and looking for food and rest by then, and still meet our 50 mile requirements. It would be nice to do though as we can leave the packs at RH, and just take the top daypacks if needed. Looks fairly short and easy, but worht doing so as to complete that portion of the island. Not sure that we will be in H for an evening presentation, but will keep it in mind for planning purposes should the itinerary get tweaked.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by Ingo »

I gotta say I'm a Stoll Trail fan. Great shoreline views (and pics) that are hard to get elsewhere, and an easy trail. Haven't had a trip that didn't include it as a closer (ending in R.H. anyway).
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by srparr »

This looks like a great trip!

> Day 1 Rock Island to Hidden Lake, Hidden Lake to Lane Cove 8.2 miles
Very doable, I'd book a water taxi ride to Hidden Lake for a lift after you arrive on the Queen IV. I've made reservations in the past in March or April, and never had an issue. Don't know if this is earlier or later than others, but it has worked for me. Lookout Louise is great, and expect a lot of ups-and-downs heading from the Greenstone out to Lane Cove!

> Day 2 Lane Cove to Seargent Peninsula 7.5 miles
Don't have any experience with this, interested to hear what others have to say!

> Day 3 Seargent Lake to E. Chickenbone 6.5 miles
Already mentioned that E. Chickenbone is not the most glamorous, but I have seen moose near there. It is a long way to water from the campsite.

> Day 4 E. Chickenbone to W. Chickenbone to Lake Ritchie 7 miles
Nice berry patches near the trail as you approach junction for W. Chickenbone. If you feel up to some extra mileage, go past the junction for W. Chickenbone and do the climb up the Greenstone (couple miles extra?). The view is phenomenal back towards the east when you get to the top. Maybe stash your packs near the junction or at least before the climb to make it easier?

> Day 5 Lake Ritchie to Chipewa Harbor 5.7 miles
Chippewa is great! There is a faint trail that starts near the group sites and goes up-hill. You can be at the top of this ridge (sunset ridge) in about 15 or 20 minutes from walking out of your shelter! Very recommended!

> Day 6 Chipewa Harbor to Moskey Basin 7.2 miles
Moskey is one of the nicest campgrounds.

> Day 7 Moskey Basin to 3 mile 7.7 miles
Rock Harbor trail is pretty rocky between Moskey and Daisy. Daisy to 3 mile is not bad, but gets rocky again as you near 3 mile.

> Day 8 3 mile to Rock Harbor 3.6 miles, plus the stoll trail waiting for the boat 4.3 miles
Checkout Suzi's cave on the way to Rock Harbor, and maybe jump over to the easier (and faster) Tobin Harbor trail there. Stoll is a great trail, easier on the north side trail, more scenic on the south side trail (my opinion).

> My first question is, what is the process/procedure
> for off designated campsite camping for one night?
> We would like to camp on the shores of Seargent lake
> in our itinerary below and do a little off trail exploring.
Never camped outside the campgrounds myself. My understanding is that you get a free permit for this when you register your itinerary upon arrival. Some areas are considered sensitive and are off-limits, and the rangers want you to be fairly precise about where you will be camping. I recommend emailing the park service to see if they have any new rules and to confirm that there is no problem with this location (it should be fine).

Keep your eyes open for otters at Chippewa & Moskey.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by johnhens »

I think the Others who have responded have covered most of the info. I will add a few comments.
Off trail hiking on IR can be abit of a challenge. The maps don't show the dense vegetation and thick trees which grow particularly along the shore. I have hiked into Sargeant Lake. I went off the Greestone and kind of followed the "creek" that goes from the small lake just South of the Greenstone to Sargeant Lake. We ended up hiking through a thick stand of small diameter trees and mud and muck. We headed for the "T" shaped peninsula on the South Shore, mid lake. The penninsula was farely overgrown. We did fish from the shore and caught a few small pike. Going back to the Greentone, we headed more to the East and had to climb a few small ridges, but it was easier than going in.

It is my understanding that you can get an off trail/backcountry permit if you wanted to do so. I would check with the NPS in Houghton for the details.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by nellnightrider »

Hi
I would like to add my 2 cents if I may here. I think your plan is good. The only thing I would change is east chickenbone. I would trek on to west chickenbone. Nice lake to fish and we saw alot of wildlife along with wolf tracks. (don't swim in it, lots of leeches) For that matter, push on to McCargo Cove. Only a couple miles. I wish you a wonderful hike.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by yankee60 »

Pardon what may be a silly question, but where is Rock Island in relation to Rock Harbor? If the route is Rock Harbor to Hidden Lake, Hidden Lake to Lane Cove, won't the mileage be considerably more than 8.2 miles?

East Chickenbone vs West Chickenbone...I agree with the others - West Chickenbone is much nicer.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by yukonjack2 »

thanx for the info. We are now officially booked on the Queen IV 8/7/10, and returning 8/14/10. Also have the water taxi set up for noon on 8/7/10 to get us started.

Let the countdown and practice hikes begin.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by DonNewcomb »

I would like to mention a bit from my experience with XC camping and permits. The first one is that there are large areas that are off limits for XC at various time. There is a map of the XC zones and the dates that the zones are open or closed but I have not found it online. You might get a copy by e-mailing the park HQ. The other thing is that some rangers can get very pedantic about the dates for XC camping. They won't tell you this when you register your trip but that permit is like a train itinerary. You are supposed to be in a specific spot in sequence according to what's on the permit. If you change anything you are supposed to clear it with a ranger. Now, they don't seem to care about this as long as you are in a campground but step off the trail even a day or two off schedule and someone may be after you. The problem may be that one ranger may say, "Ah, no big deal." and the other may pull out his citation book and start writing. I would not suggest that you, at any time, mix the terms "Scouts", "group", "cross country" and/or "off trail".

The other issue is the physical one that the east end of IR tends to be very densely overgrown. The best time of the year for XC camping is as early in the season as possible, before the thimble-berries get too tall and thick. Planning from the best available air photos is recommended.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by johnhens »

DonNewcomb wrote:I would like to mention a bit from my experience with XC camping and permits. The first one is that there are large areas that are off limits for XC at various time. There is a map of the XC zones and the dates that the zones are open or closed but I have not found it online. You might get a copy by e-mailing the park HQ. The other thing is that some rangers can get very pedantic about the dates for XC camping. They won't tell you this when you register your trip but that permit is like a train itinerary. You are supposed to be in a specific spot in sequence according to what's on the permit. If you change anything you are supposed to clear it with a ranger. Now, they don't seem to care about this as long as you are in a campground but step off the trail even a day or two off schedule and someone may be after you. The problem may be that one ranger may say, "Ah, no big deal." and the other may pull out his citation book and start writing. I would not suggest that you, at any time, mix the terms "Scouts", "group", "cross country" and/or "off trail".
The Park Service is very clear in their directions on Backcoutry Permits in that you must camp within the zone you choose for a given date and place. I have gotten many Backcountry Permits in the past and have never had a problem with any Ranger who reviewed my permit as I camped within the zone my permit covered on the day I chose. The Directions are straightforward and clear. I can't recall others that have pulled a Backcoutry Permit who followed the directions and camped in the respective zone on the given date having issues with a Ranger. If you wish to pull a Backcountry Permit, then you should be willing to follow the required restrictions.

Anytime I have gotten a permit,I have been told specifically that I may be in the zone only on the days I put down. Otherwise, established campground stays are flexable unlike most other National Parks.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by DonNewcomb »

johnhens wrote:Anytime I have gotten a permit,I have been told specifically that I may be in the zone only on the days I put down. Otherwise, established campground stays are flexable unlike most other National Parks.
OTOH, we were just shown the map and given no specific instructions other than not to camp outside the approved zones. (This on Ranger III) We were not given a copy of the map, so after getting our permits, we had to rely on our memories as to where the zone boundaries were. It was not explained that the XC permits were for a specific date. In fact the permit does not really seem to have a space for date, rather it assumes a specific sequence of overnight stays from the beginning to the end of your visit. When we were delayed a day because bad weather delayed our supply drop, we discussed our change of plans with the on-scene ranger. He asked if we had a XC permit and was satisfied that we did but didn't ask to check it. Everyone in the field was satisfied that we had put the correct XC zones on our permit. Only when we were checking out did we get a ration of s*it from the desk ranger about camping XC on the wrong date. Essentially we fell into a trap. No one really seemed to care about the specific dates we'd be XC except this one guy who wanted to read us the riot act. I just don't want anyone else to fall into a similar trap.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by head2north »

Don, sounds like you were really really traumatized by your experience. Be careful not to let it happen again because the second offense is even worse than your so called “ration of s*it”. They throw you in a pen and paint your toes with peanut butter and let loose the resident fox. And I’ll tell ya, you don’t want to know about the third offense.
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Re: first Itinerary questions for 2010

Post by DonNewcomb »

head2north wrote:Don, sounds like you were really really traumatized by your experience.
More pi**ed that anything else. Really, when you try your best to follow all their rules and then get told you did it all wrong, it's really frustrating.
And I’ll tell ya, you don’t want to know about the third offense.
Does it have anything to do with moose? :shock:
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