BUGS!

Questions regarding Weather, Bugs, Northern Lights and other "natural" phenomena.

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3curlgreenhead
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BUGS!

Post by 3curlgreenhead » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:19 am

Family will be on the Island form 6/29 - 7/4. How are the bugs? What type of repellant has everyone found to be the most effective? Do we need head nets?

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Ingo
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Re: BUGS!

Post by Ingo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:25 pm

Prepare for the worst, that's prime skeeter and fly season (and hope for the best). My 3 point strategy: (1) Headnets absolutely--cheapest insurance you can buy :). (2) Treat clothing with Permethrin before you go (I don't always, but that time of year I would). (3) Picaridin or DEET (30% +). I've gone to using Picaridin because it doesn't 'melt' things, and have found it effective but not as long lasting as high-test DEET. I have not found lower % DEET or other alternative repellents to be effective, at least for the skeeters and flies you encounter in the back woods.

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Re: BUGS!

Post by thesneakymonkey » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:18 pm

Yup what Ingo said. I will also say, bring long sleeves and long pants! You might be a tad warm but it'll do a lot to protect your arms and legs from the bugs.


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Re: BUGS!

Post by Chorizo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:17 pm

Having been to island many times I can say that several of those trips could have been ruined had we not brought headnets. Many trips I have never used them and several trips I haven't used them except once or twice. But when you need them, you really need them.


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Re: BUGS!

Post by Midwest Ed » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:50 pm

Ditto to all comments. Also, black flies are more attracted to darker colors so go with the light shades. They seem to swarm like a massive flock of migrating Starlings but don't get paranoid. They can be swarming in one place and nowhere to be seen in another place close by....usually....until they locate you. :cry: :evil: Tuck your long pants into your socks, put on your headnet and wait for dusk as they go away after dark.
8 trips, 1975 x 2, 1976 x 2, 1978, 1985, 2000, 2013

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Ingo
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Re: BUGS!

Post by Ingo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:49 pm

Midwest Ed wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:50 pm
Ditto to all comments. Also, black flies are more attracted to darker colors so go with the light shades.
I can attest that at Whitefish Point my wife's dark blue jeans were literally covered with flies, while my khakis had only a few (neither were treated)--although they were sand flies. Some gears ago I researched colors and bugs and concluded that khaki colors (green or tan) are the best overall compromise, it does differ somewhat on the bug.
Tuck your long pants into your socks, put on your headnet and wait for dusk as they go away after dark.
But then the skeeters really come out :x.


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Re: BUGS!

Post by Lane » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:07 am

Would you treat your packs with permethrin too? Sleeping bags? I discovered 'Dick's' is the only place that seems to actually stock it in my area - 24 oz trigger spray. I know one is not enough, but will 2 be enough to do a pack tent, 2 packs, bags and clothing for 2 for a week - my clothing list is 2 sets of lightweight convertible pants (wearing one), 2 quick dry tees, one long sleeve 'fishing' shirt, 2 socks, rain shell (will this stuff affect gore tex?) My wife is packing like Zsa Zsa Gabor - she thinks all she has to carry is "her" stuff and one day's rations... :roll: But I already told her...

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Re: BUGS!

Post by thesneakymonkey » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:05 am

Lane wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:07 am
Would you treat your packs with permethrin too? Sleeping bags? I discovered 'Dick's' is the only place that seems to actually stock it in my area - 24 oz trigger spray. I know one is not enough, but will 2 be enough to do a pack tent, 2 packs, bags and clothing for 2 for a week - my clothing list is 2 sets of lightweight convertible pants (wearing one), 2 quick dry tees, one long sleeve 'fishing' shirt, 2 socks, rain shell (will this stuff affect gore tex?) My wife is packing like Zsa Zsa Gabor - she thinks all she has to carry is "her" stuff and one day's rations... :roll: But I already told her...
Those 24oz bottles treat 4 complete outfits (per sawyer that means: socks, pants, shirt). You really want to spray the garments until they are saturated. You cant skimp on the spray. I dont think 2 would be enough for all that. But personally I would cut back on what you are bringing and spraying. You dont need that much clothing for a week. 1 pair of pants, 1 tshirt, 1 long sleeve, 2 socks (one hike one sleep), and your rain shell. Also regarding the rain shell, the spray wont work on it. You will find it just beads off. You dont need to treat your sleeping bags, pack or tent. Your tent rainfly will be similar to the rain jacket and it'll just bead off. Here is a video if you are interested in the spraying process: https://youtu.be/lkViaVI4Aak.


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Re: BUGS!

Post by Lane » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:44 am

Got it. thanks. Yeah, I don't need 2 pants. And I guess 1 tee should be sufficient. I'll probably end up wearing sleeves most of the time anyway.


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Re: BUGS!

Post by Midwest Ed » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:03 am

This concentrate is much more economical. Dilute it 19 to 1 for the same 0.5% solution sold in the spray containers. I just put some mixed solution in a bucket and dump the clothes in. Make sure you wear latex or nitrile gloves. Don't get any solution on your skin and rinse thoroughly if you do. Get the clothes all saturated then wring out and allow to thoroughly dry.
8 trips, 1975 x 2, 1976 x 2, 1978, 1985, 2000, 2013


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Re: BUGS!

Post by Lane » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:25 pm

Ingo, Wbat do you mean by "melt things"? I picked up some deet, pretty strong stuff.

I like the 'wash clothes' in permethrin idea. I'll keep it in my memory banks.

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Ingo
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Re: BUGS!

Post by Ingo » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:42 pm

Lane wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:25 pm
Ingo, Wbat do you mean by "melt things"? I picked up some deet, pretty strong stuff.
DEET interacts with some plastics, vinyl, and other synthetics--dissolves the surface and makes it sticky. Will also take ink (like labels) off things. It's usually OK once it's dry though. I usually rinse off my hands after applying. But ruined a pair of glasses once by touching the lens after I put it on. And a couple buttons on a camera. So I started using Picaridin after I put some good money into camera equipment. But if you rinse your hands and are careful not to touch things until it drys it's OK. The 100% stuff you have to be really careful with.

p.s. If going this time of year I'd probably bring some 100% DEET for backup just in case, in addition to Picardin. Even if overkill ...

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hooky
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Re: BUGS!

Post by hooky » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:13 am

Midwest Ed wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:03 am
This concentrate is much more economical. Dilute it 19 to 1 for the same 0.5% solution sold in the spray containers. I just put some mixed solution in a bucket and dump the clothes in. Make sure you wear latex or nitrile gloves. Don't get any solution on your skin and rinse thoroughly if you do. Get the clothes all saturated then wring out and allow to thoroughly dry.
The concentrate is the only way to go. Anything left over gets sprayed around the outside on the house's foundation for ants and on the screen door for flies on the deck.


Midwest Ed
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Re: BUGS!

Post by Midwest Ed » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 pm

hooky wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:13 am
Midwest Ed wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:03 am
This concentrate is much more economical. Dilute it 19 to 1 for the same 0.5% solution sold in the spray containers. I just put some mixed solution in a bucket and dump the clothes in. Make sure you wear latex or nitrile gloves. Don't get any solution on your skin and rinse thoroughly if you do. Get the clothes all saturated then wring out and allow to thoroughly dry.
The concentrate is the only way to go. Anything left over gets sprayed around the outside on the house's foundation for ants and on the screen door for flies on the deck.
There are some directions that say to dry the clothes in the clothes dryer. If it's hotter than just tumble dry, something tells me it will be at least slightly less effective. Other directions claim the effectiveness lasts several wash cycles. It's so inexpensive and easy, I just retreat before each trip. I saw somewhere there is a service where you can ship your clothes to them for treatment (expensive).

That 8 ounce bottle will make 5 quarts of treatment solution. A 32 ounce, 10% bottle is only twice the price so you get 20 quarts for 20 bucks. I do not believe there are any shelf life issues, at least not for the concentrate.

I've wondered about the health side effects from sweat. Does the chemical leach out and onto your skin?
8 trips, 1975 x 2, 1976 x 2, 1978, 1985, 2000, 2013

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hooky
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Re: BUGS!

Post by hooky » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:17 pm

Midwest Ed wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 pm
hooky wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:13 am
Midwest Ed wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:03 am
This concentrate is much more economical. Dilute it 19 to 1 for the same 0.5% solution sold in the spray containers. I just put some mixed solution in a bucket and dump the clothes in. Make sure you wear latex or nitrile gloves. Don't get any solution on your skin and rinse thoroughly if you do. Get the clothes all saturated then wring out and allow to thoroughly dry.
The concentrate is the only way to go. Anything left over gets sprayed around the outside on the house's foundation for ants and on the screen door for flies on the deck.
There are some directions that say to dry the clothes in the clothes dryer. If it's hotter than just tumble dry, something tells me it will be at least slightly less effective. Other directions claim the effectiveness lasts several wash cycles. It's so inexpensive and easy, I just retreat before each trip. I saw somewhere there is a service where you can ship your clothes to them for treatment (expensive).

That 8 ounce bottle will make 5 quarts of treatment solution. A 32 ounce, 10% bottle is only twice the price so you get 20 quarts for 20 bucks. I do not believe there are any shelf life issues, at least not for the concentrate.

I've wondered about the health side effects from sweat. Does the chemical leach out and onto your skin?
I've never found anything that says leaching from clothing via sweat will be harmful. It's listed as having very low toxicity for mammals (except for cats). It's used in shampoo at 1% for treatment of lice and in topical creams at 5% for treatment of scabies.

The only thing I've been able to find regarding serious toxicity in humans is if it's ingested orally. It's poorly absorbed through the skin. I still wear gloves and don't get it on myself. I stay upwind when I spray it to avoid breathing any fumes.

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