Re: Shelter Graffiti
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:43 pm
What you discovered Rafiki, is that "Ignorantia legis neminem excusat." - Ignorance of the law excuses no one.
With limited legal precidents excluding that in the United States court system, it's a rule that still holds at this time.
Given enough years, politicians, and lawyers, the law books both Federally and locally are immense. However, legally speaking, none of us is allowed to argue "I didn't know" - Well, not at least expecting to be successful. For instance, don't get drunk on a train in Michigan; and don't cross into Wisconsin territory from Minnesota with a duck on your head. Both are illegal, both COULD earn you a ticket. (They may have repealed that one the last session - I forget.)
I respect that the rangers on the Isle have a but a limited time when we get off the boat to address us before we're on our way. I also respect there is only so much print space available on permits, etc. At some point, something has to give, and they elect to highlight what is most important to them - Not only what is illegal. For instance, my permit has never said I can't randomly shoot a wolf. However, perhaps because I'm familiar with the endangered species act, or perhaps of 'common sense' - I know they'd be really mad if I did that. I might get a ticket.
Ultimately, it's not the forum members you need to debate your views. You'll get both sides to the argument, I'm sure, but most folks come here to talk about what to do and where to go, and aren't perhaps as interested in the esoteric debate. It's not the law enforcement rangers, or other authorized personel, like Damon, you need to convince, either. Sure, they have discretion in giving the ticket, but they CAN issue a ticket. The person you may wish to save your argument for is the Federal judge you'll find yourself in front of. They may see things your way, or may not. They'll certainly use the results of previous case law in aiding their decision, and you can find many cases where folks were charged for graffiti. I DO know that while you may wish to take your own chances with shelters, I certainly would stay away from the mines, old fishing houses, etc. If you deface or damage one of those, then they can nail you with the antiquities act, and the penalties are far worse..
With limited legal precidents excluding that in the United States court system, it's a rule that still holds at this time.
Given enough years, politicians, and lawyers, the law books both Federally and locally are immense. However, legally speaking, none of us is allowed to argue "I didn't know" - Well, not at least expecting to be successful. For instance, don't get drunk on a train in Michigan; and don't cross into Wisconsin territory from Minnesota with a duck on your head. Both are illegal, both COULD earn you a ticket. (They may have repealed that one the last session - I forget.)
I respect that the rangers on the Isle have a but a limited time when we get off the boat to address us before we're on our way. I also respect there is only so much print space available on permits, etc. At some point, something has to give, and they elect to highlight what is most important to them - Not only what is illegal. For instance, my permit has never said I can't randomly shoot a wolf. However, perhaps because I'm familiar with the endangered species act, or perhaps of 'common sense' - I know they'd be really mad if I did that. I might get a ticket.
Ultimately, it's not the forum members you need to debate your views. You'll get both sides to the argument, I'm sure, but most folks come here to talk about what to do and where to go, and aren't perhaps as interested in the esoteric debate. It's not the law enforcement rangers, or other authorized personel, like Damon, you need to convince, either. Sure, they have discretion in giving the ticket, but they CAN issue a ticket. The person you may wish to save your argument for is the Federal judge you'll find yourself in front of. They may see things your way, or may not. They'll certainly use the results of previous case law in aiding their decision, and you can find many cases where folks were charged for graffiti. I DO know that while you may wish to take your own chances with shelters, I certainly would stay away from the mines, old fishing houses, etc. If you deface or damage one of those, then they can nail you with the antiquities act, and the penalties are far worse..