Isle Royale Forums

What are your thoughts on its effectiveness and risks?

Effectiveness: Perhaps less than total exclusion (headnet, long sleeves,inside of tent), but still works. Works differently than, say, DEET, which attempts more to mask folks than 'protect.' Permethrin has a close cousin, Bifenthrin, which is commonly used in home and farm insecticides. Permethrin has a better 'kill' factor than DEET, in my experience, and ultimately, keeps insects away. It's very good with ticks, but that's not an Isle Royale concern..

Risks: You typically apply permethrin to clothing and gear, as opposed to the skin. (Although there might be formulations for skin contact.) That being said, it doesn't readily absorb into the skin, which was always a concern for DEET. (Some companies, like Sawyer, have come out with products that bond the DEET molecule to something larger, to prevent skin absorbtion.) In addition to insects, permethrin is down right deadly to cats, and isn't so good for fish, either... So, keep that in mind when finding a place to treat your clothing/gear.

Tom wrote:permethrin is down right deadly to cats

It's been known to kill cats after just secondary exposure being next to a dog that was treated.

I'm thinking that anything that deadly to even a cat has to be presenting something nasty or unknown to humans. My guess is that cats ingest the transfered material due to their constant preening.

I bought a big bottle from Sawyer to treat clothing. It strongly cautions against contact of the wet solution with skin. Not sure if they'd make a lotion from it. I've been impressed with its effectiveness, though.

Risks - read and decide yourself. I'm cautious even though I do wear the treated clothing from time to time. DEET has its own concerns, too, though and that you apply in liquid solution directly on your skin.

This thread sparked my interest, so I picked up a bottle of Permethrin AND 98.5% deet (just to be sure). We had very light bugs (only a few skeeters) during our stay, but the Permethrin did keep them from landing on me when applied regularly. I found that during the hour long assault and dawn and dusk, I had to re-apply once or twice to keep it affective. I'm assuming that is more healthy than 1 application of Deet.

Based on my experience, the stuff does not keep the skeeters away as well as Deet though. It kept them from landing and biting, but they were still buzzing in close proximity. The Deet keeps them away also.

Just my $0.02.

Wilderness Junkie wrote:This thread sparked my interest, so I picked up a bottle of Permethrin AND 98.5% deet (just to be sure).

Just so no one gets the wrong idea, permethrin should never be applied to bare skin. This is the first warning on the box/kit I have.

It is for pre-treating clothing, tents and the like. Application should be done outside and the treated items shouldn't be used or brought indoors until completely dry.

LeftOvers wrote:

Wilderness Junkie wrote:This thread sparked my interest, so I picked up a bottle of Permethrin AND 98.5% deet (just to be sure).

Just so no one gets the wrong idea, permethrin should never be applied to bare skin. This is the first warning on the box/kit I have.

It is for pre-treating clothing, tents and the like. Application should be done outside and the treated items shouldn't be used or brought indoors until completely dry.

I need to echo the warning about safety. You absolutely should not apply Permethrin to your skin, or use gear treated with Permethrin until it is dry.

That said, I have been using Permethrin to treat my gear for years. I tend to hike in Southern Illinois, which swarms with ticks and mosquitoes (I have been at campsites in the Shawnee National Forest at which there were ticks actually wandering around on the picnic tables, and are on every piece of underbrush). I treat my pack, my tent, pants, socks, shirts, and jackets/fleeces. I have not brought home a tick or gotten a mosquito bite since I started using Permethrin (I treat face and hands with Natrapel -- a non-DEET repellant). Permethrin's also worked for me in Illinois, in the Ozarks, in Wisconsin, and out West. Not a tick, not a chigger, not a mosquito bite.

As I understand it, Permethrin is very safe (as long as you are not a cat or an invertebrate). Once it binds to the fabric of your gear and dries, it is not absorbed into the skin, but it affects insects that touch it. Don't ask me how, I'm not a chemist.

The thing I love most about Permethrin is that I don't have to reapply daily. It washes out over time and loses effectiveness in about 4 weeks. But that's better than spraying myself and my gear day after day.

I have been using Permethrin on my gear and clothes for about a year now. I was recently on a trip up the Vermilion River (west of the BWCA) and the mosquito and deer fly pressure was as bad as I have ever seen. The only areas where I was bit were my face and hands, which were uncovered by my clothes. I treated my tent before we left and there were some on the outside of the tent, but ones that got in were soon dead.

As far as health concerns, I feel much safer using Permethrin than using DEET, which burns and blisters my skin.

I always treat with permethrin and I do it specifically because of ticks. Having added a cat to the family I obviously have to be much more careful when I treat now, but I'm a believer.

http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/maps/interactiveMaps.html

I just got back from 4 days in the Porcupine Mountain State Park (MI). I sprayed all my clothes and pack with Permetherin before leaving, specifically because of ticks and Lyme disease. It seemed to work for me, for both ticks and mosquitos, but I also used Deet on exposed skin and wore long pants. My son (same treatment for clothes) used less Deet than me and did complain a bit about mosquitos.

alecto73 wrote:I always treat with permethrin and I do it specifically because of ticks. Having added a cat to the family I obviously have to be much more careful when I treat now, but I'm a believer.

http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/maps/interactiveMaps.html

any tips for keeping cats safe... my wife would be pissed if I killed the cat.

Once it is dry it is supposed to be ok. I still keep clothes that are treated away from him because he's awesome and I don't want to kill him. I do my treating out in the driveway and hang in the garage, take a shower.

I use permethrin on cloths, tent and packs a week ahead of time. But for the skin I use Catnip. I grow it a home, pick it fresh, run it thru a food processor, seep it in hot water for 5-10 minutes and put it in a spray bottle. Takes 15 minutes to make. Cost (dollar store) spray bottle and a little time. Works better than Deep Woods OFF. Google the studies on it. I didn't believe it so I tested it a few times with the wife using OFF or Cutter. Also I tested 50/50 (Right side Catnip/Left side OFF). After 3-4 hours I started to get bit on the left side. 12 hours later not a bite on the right side. Next morning I got bit on the right wrist once, but the left was getting ate up and then I sprayed the catnip.

I used permethrin for the first time this year and I'm a believer. I bought a quart of concentrate for about the same price as the premixed Sawyer. I'll never run out of Permethrin. I spent time in the boundary waters during the week of Memorial day and the only mosquito bites i had were the result of exposed skin while on the "wilderness throne". I treated the hammock's bug net and the underside of my tarp also. As a result, I didn't have a cloud of skeeters buzzing around my head while in the hammock. I can't say enough about the stuff. I've been treating my boots once a month and haven't found a tick on my legs on all year.

I think cats ingest the transfered material due to their constant preening.


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