Isle Royale Forums

Interesting, although not a surprising position for the NPS to take.

It would appear that they believe the wolf pups discovered last year are two that could make up for a "breeding pair?"

Here is the AP story, with a bit more detail: http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... ought-isle

Like Fonix said, it's not a surprising position for the NPS to take. Sort of a "it's not a crisis, yet" concept.

Nature can do funny and amazing things, and I guess I'm not against watching where this might go!

I've followed this pretty closely like many on here. It wasn't my call to make, however the more I think about it, it's likely the call I would have made. Isabelle's loss as a breeding female was a big loss, but if the west end pack breads again the next couple of years things could change naturally. I can see many answers to this problem though.

But it still doesn't help solve the inbreeding problem, right? The current packs can continue to have pups, but the long-term health of the incoming animals is still in jeporady, correct? That lone wolf that wandered across 25ish years ago gave the existing packs a new breath of life, but again that DNA has run it's course. The current wolves have spine and hip issues, if I remember correctly.

From what I recall the spine issues are not that much more peeve leant than on many main land packs. I seem to recall that bieng debated during the 2 hr open panel that Rolf and Dave Mech were a part of a while ago

I second Tom's point on this one.Mother nature is the boss.Inbreeding to a point is practiced in many domesticated breeds, only they call it line breeding. When looking for desirable traits for certain animals it is an acceptable process.I am going to cite the modern bulldog for instance.100 to 150 years ago, it did not look like the bulldog of today.you may also wish to look into the siberian fox breeding experiments of the 50's to modern day.Consider this, most if not all of the Islands populations are inbred.seems to me that the squirrels look a little different then around home.I am not familiar with the local breeds however.The island creatures of the Galapogos islands did ok without human help.It wasnt untill we started messing about that thing began to go extict.....poor old lonesome george! It may be that introducing new dna may only slow the evoulution down.Lets all look at the bright side if the isle royal wolves go the way of the dodo bird,they could have my local pack! !!!! They are alive and well, and to be honest most of my neighbors have lost something to our local pack.2 of my dogs and a handfull of chickens comes to mind! Sorry! Anyway my point is Isle Royal could have new wolves within months! There are plenty in Minnesota and Wisconsin.with the old possibly polluted genetics gone, the new strong and healthy pacs would flourish on the island for many many years with no issues. So why not let morher nature do her thing.thats why we go there.so lets revel in her beauty, and hope it all works out!

tree rattt wrote:So why not let mother nature do her thing?

Since I'm not Mother Nature, I'm not trying to answer your question, but rather bring to light what I've heard some of the researchers claim.

The reason for the proposed genetic rescue of the wolves is not so much to save the wolves for the sake of not losing the wolves. The motives are to also save the current botanical status. The small pack size has already reduced moose predation from highs of about 25% down to 2%. More moose die from pneumonia than wolves now. The fear is an imminent explosion of the moose population. Their predominant food (shorter balsam fir within reach) would be severely overgrazed. I don't exactly remember the rest of the expected botanical sequence but due to to the present evolutionary stage of most of the forest, a dramatic and in some places a possible permanent change in foliage makeup could occur. When/should this happen it would have long reaching aspects regarding its ability to ever recover to the point that it could then again support the previous or even a viable moose population.

Of course, its all mother nature's course but the implications that repairing the eventual situation seem to go well beyond trapping and releasing a few wolves. But who knows for sure?

I see your point. I agree that the wolves play an important part in the islands delicate ecosystem.I am an arborist by trade, within minutes of being on the island I could see there was a browse problem.My wifes hobby farm has also shown how much damage that a heard of goats could do to 10acres of woods.Now size up to a moose......yikes! They seem to have more of a moose problem then a wolf problem. Everything needs balance is what seems to be problem. It is evident that the balance is lost.I havent followed this topic very closely. Like I said we have plenty of wolves, I believe that wisconsin is considering or is already hunting them.the island needs them ship em up! If they dont at the rate the moose multiply, it will be too little too late? I guess like many, we are all a little curious about the why ?
Budget issue? It seems they need to replace what was lost when the dog got loose with the parvo virus.definately a controversial subject.I would love to learn more.

tree rattt wrote:seems to me that the squirrels look a little different then around home.

You're right, they are considered a unique subspecies. (Tamiasciurus hudsonicus regalis) The "regalis" means it's the true king of Isle Royale. From the NPS Mammal list: "A closer look
would reveal that the Isle Royale squirrel is smaller and less red than its mainland counterparts, and a careful listener would detect differences in its vocalizations."
The only vocalization I can recall is really, really annoying.

I think Capt Don's topic title makes the point: "for the near term."
I don't doubt that word of a breeding population and pups made them wipe their brow and figure they could continue the "policy of non-intervention" for the short term, and it buys them time. They recognize there is a triangle between moose (dominant grazer), wolf (dominant predator), and fir. (Dominant vegetation) It's actually this last one that could be the final arbiter of how this goes.

Current climate models indicate that within 100 years, Minnesota's North Shore (and by matter of geography, I'm guessing Isle Royale) will no longer be a good climate for fir and birch, and hardwood species will become dominant. Presently, there are biologists planting maple and oak in the MN forests along Superior, such that as this progression happens, they will have some mature, large trees to help the transition. Moose populations in Minnesota aren't doing all that hot, and need a more northern area to succeed. I think it's only a matter of time before Isle Royale cannot support moose, either, and not from over browsing. The scary thing is that it could happen within some of our lifetimes.

Who doesn't love the squirrels?Except when they are chewing a hole in our packs , or like you said barking relentlessly! They sure are a bold breed, gotta give them that!

The park service is in a crunch for sure. On one side, leave it alone,and then those that want intervention.either decision is going to be wrong by someone. They are between a greenstone and a hard place ( all of the visitors) .Like you pointed out they have to consider climate change.That honestly never crossed my mind.I was thinking about natural forest succession. Considering that the fir population is by definition a " pioneer species " it is only a temporary ecosystem.The hard woods already have a good foothold in many places! The firs shadow and force the hardwoods to grow fast and tall , they must also compete for limited resources! You are deffinately right when you say there could be big changes, and soon! The change could lead to the return of the white tail deer, or on the other hand, no large mammals at all. So the phrase " for the near term " sounds spot on!

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Tom wrote:......Current climate models indicate that within 100 years, Minnesota's North Shore (and by matter of geography, I'm guessing Isle Royale) will no longer be a good climate for fir and birch, and hardwood species will become dominant........

I question a lot of these models which suggests the boreal forest will eventually disappear and be replaced by northern hardwoods on Isle Royale in as short a time period as 100 years (and yes, a 100 years is a short time period). Most seem to disregard the cooling effects of Lake Superior as well as the lack of good hardwood soils on the island. Right now, boreal forests are found as far south as the Lake Huron coastline near Alpena, Michigan, primarily due to the cooling effects of Lake Huron. I suspect that Lake Superior will have a much larger influence on the island's vegetation than the models suggest. The models also seem to disregard the effects of soil. It's no coincidence that the hard maple/yellow birch forest stops immediately east of Lake Desor. This is where the relatively deep soils of the SW part of the island end (which hardwoods love) and are replaced by much shallower soils and bedrock (where you find spruce, balsam, white birch).

Of course I'm not suggesting that the island's vegetation will never change, it's been changing since the glaciers left and will continue to do so. But to suggest, as one researcher has, that Isle Royale's boreal forest will be replaced by red maple and grasses within 100 years, that sounds like a theory concocted by some professor who has spent his entire career in the classroom and has never actually worked in the field.

I can't say specifically of Isle Royale, but I know they are doing a fair amount of research regarding MN North Shore - A mere 15 miles away. The changes could be devastating to the MN logging industry.

I had the opportunity to hear a lecture from Dr. Jeff Corney, a climate ecologist from the Cedar Creek Ecosystem Reserve, a site run by the Univ of MN. The site was located in 1940 at only point in the US where the three major biomes of the US converge. (Western Prairie, Northern Boreal/Tiaga, and Eastern Hardwoods.) Since that time (70 years), the 'meet point' for those three biomes has shifted nearly 150 miles to the NW. The concern is that the warmer temps will push out the southern border of the polar airmass flow, which is what makes the boreal forest possible. (And also keeps Superior/Great Lakes as cool as they are.)
Based on historical movement of that zone, as well as temp/moisture changes, they predict that within 100 years, the vital zone needed for Black Spruce to grow will be 300 miles north of where it is now. And, like Treeplanter indicates, the soil might not be suitable for hardwoods, either...

Anyhoo, for those who like to geek out with research:
http://www.cbs.umn.edu/explore/cedarcreek
http://forestecology.cfans.umn.edu/Research/B4WARMED/
http://cffe.cfans.umn.edu/Projects/Clim ... /index.htm
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/ja ... trees.html
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/ja ... rming.html

All of this has, of course, done this numerous times before in the history of time. Just like Isle Royale has been many different habitats for many different creatures. For those who have ever studied the Gaia Hypothesis, you'll recall that Earth is complex and life always finds a way... We're just along for the ride!

In 1976 Isle Royale was designated a national wilderness area under The Wilderness Act of 1964. It was also designated an International Biosphere in 1980. One tenet of the wilderness act is that it designates areas where “the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man” where untrammeled means the forces of nature are not restricted or hampered (presumably by man). While the Biosphere designation would seem to imply further restrictions beyond wilderness designation, it is 1) a United Nations program, not Federal or State but also 2) recognizes the balancing of conservation with sustainable use.

When decisions are made that abide by the “hands off” approach, should they also take into account the effects of man that led up to the situation? In the case of Isle Royale one can itemize the negative aspects of man’s actions such as just one person’s negligence when he brought his dog all the way to the global aspects of anthropomorphic climate warming. Corrective actions should not be taken lightly but just like mankind does not live in a vacuum (at least in the non-cosmic sense) neither is any wilderness area truly isolated. BTW, regardless how one looks at anthropomorphic global warming I would venture the majority of decision makers accept it.

Just a question here. What does the parks biosphere reserve, hands off approach do with wildfire? One bad perfect storm could destroy a majority of the wildlife as well as soil and plants& trees.walking around the island one can see that from a forestry standpoint, isle royale is an accident waiting to happen.Obviously this is of great concern. Great lengths were taken. The minong trail was built as a fire trail, and the fire towers were constructed.There is one thing I particularly look forward to on my up and coming trip is the recently burned area on the minong.I love to see how mother nature copes with adversity, and overcomes! Its forest are left natural since its logging hay day.What was the dominant forest type? What happened to the elk and white tails? Over logging / loss of habitat? Over hunting? Was there a dominant predator then? Were they hunted to extinction out of fear? I HAVE Often wondered what brings a wolf pack or moose out 15 to 20 miles out into the lake to an island that is hard to see? And the rest of the species, granted they have had a thousands of years. Truly astonishing ! Even enough time to develop subspecies!

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