Inexperienced Individual With Canoe/Kayak Questions

[Rafiki]

I am quickly getting to the point where I have walked along all the foot trails that Isle Royale has to offer and have stayed at all of the campgrounds found beside the trails. I now have a craving to explore the island in other ways. Backcountrying is one option I look forward to exploring. The other is canoing or kayaking around and through the island. The latter of the two is the reason for writing this thread.

I am a novice when its comes to water travel. Yes, I have rented a canoe before and taken on it on a state park lake. Yes, I have used my uncles canoe on the lake that rests behind his house. But no, I have never taken any classes or courses on canoing or kayaking. So, before I get way ahead of myself, how experienced do you think one should be of if or she plans to canoe or kayak around Isle Royale? Should I have some sort of training? Or is being able to swim combined with having life jackets on board enough to remove most of the danger out of water travel at Isle Royale? It should also be noted that I intend to stay as close to the shoreline of where ever it is that I intend to go. In otherwords, provided that I have enough water depth to navigate through the water, I plan to stay within 50ft of the shoreline. Does this make things anymore safer? I'd love to hear everyones thoughts. Patiently waiting. Thanks.

Rafiki

P.S. In the end, I want to visit every water campground that Isle Royale has to offer.

[treeplanter]

....I am a novice when its comes to water travel. Yes, I have rented a canoe before and taken on it on a state park lake. Yes, I have used my uncles canoe on the lake that rests behind his house. But no, I have never taken any classes or courses on canoing or kayaking. So, before I get way ahead of myself, how experienced do you think one should be of if or she plans to canoe or kayak around Isle Royale? Should I have some sort of training? Or is being able to swim combined with having life jackets on board enough to remove most of the danger out of water travel at Isle Royale? It should also be noted that I intend to stay as close to the shoreline of where ever it is that I intend to go. In otherwords, provided that I have enough water depth to navigate through the water, I plan to stay within 50ft of the shoreline. Does this make things anymore safer? I'd love to hear everyones thoughts. Patiently waiting. Thanks...

Do yourself a favor and don't even consider kayaking in Lake Superior until you get some big-water experience. Lake Superior is not to be taken lightly. I've seen everything from flat water to 6' waves. And as strange as this sounds, you often find the most challenging conditions within a few hundred feet of the shore. This is where you find the "chop zone," which is where rollers coming off the lake bounce back once they hit the shore. Very unsettling and very challenging paddling.

My advice is to forget a canoe and get a sea kayak. And then practice, preferably with a partner.

Depending on where you live, you can usually find kayaking classes someplace. Sign up for some classes and then get some experience. Only go when you feel you're ready for big-water.

[colvinch]

For me: a canoe has been the only way I have seen Isle Royale, you get to hit the places that people can't get to by trail and the fishing is much much better than shore fishing.
That being said I am an accomplished canoer with many many miles under my paddle.
Often staying close to shore can be very dangerous, for a few reasons, one is alot of the places on the big water around Isle royale don't offer any refuge, lots of shear rock faces so even if you are in trouble going to shore often isn't an option.
Another problem is you get reflected waves off of these rock faces, so if you are travelling parallel to the shore you most likely are taking waves broad side to your canoe, then you get the echo wave off of the rock face, alot of times you can get hit by 2 waves at once that are travelling in different directions, it's pretty wierd feeling having the nose of the canoe pushed one way then all of a sudden you get the stern pushed the other now you are pointing right toward shore or just the opposite and now facing out. Very unstable water
Another issue is the reefs that surround the Isle like Indian point, waves coming in fast to these areas will build when they get to the reef and the water is really rough. You have to be able to learn how to read the water, know where you are going and the best route to get there and most of the time that means you have to go further out into the lake to make the right path so you aren't in the ditch of the waves getting beat up. this is especially true on Siskwit lake, I have had problems crossing this 2 times, sometimes you will have to paddle out a couple hundred yards just to make a turn and make it 50 yards forward on your path and then have to turn back into the waves and do it again, kind of like tacking when you are on a sailboat.
If you don't have much experience in a canoe I would suggest practicing on large inland lakes that get affected by wind, and also very fast and tight turning rivers I have been canoeing the Pine River now for 20 years and this has giving me all the confidence in my skills, both of those will challenge you and you will learn how to manuever your canoe with the current and wind.

All of the inland lakes I have paddlend except Siskwit are nice calm paddles, that is until the wind picks up and you battle the wind it self but other than that they are very easy paddles

[Wilderness Junkie]

Both the previous posters make very good points....

There are several enablers to allow you to hit all the routes and campsites.

1)Time is obviously the biggest factor. If you have the time, you can paddle when Mother Nature allows and wait and explore insland when She is not coorperating. This could take weeks if not months depending on your luck...

2) Utilize the water taxis and Voyager II. You could schedule these for the long, unprotected stretches of open Superior paddling. We were very hesitant to paddle from RH to Chippewa Harbor on our trip this year. I am an experienced kayaker, so I had no quams about it, but the other guys in our groups had small-water kayaks and a rather shallow canoe. As it turned out, we could have paddled all the way from Copper Harbor the water was so flat......

3) Flexibility in your schedule and route selection. By tailoring your paddling route based on the current weather forecast for that particular trip to the island (althought I realize this can change quickly), you can adapt to an open water section or plan on a 'portage heavy' route.

Anyway you slice it, like mentioned above by others, getting some real experience is key. Paddling in 4-5 footers in a kayak is very unsettling unless you are accustomed to it. The best way to practice (IMO) is on one of our Great Lakes in the summer when the water is warm and you don't mind getting wet while practicing in the surf.

[Rafiki]

Thanks for all of the help guys. The reason I posted this question was because I was hoping to rent a canoe in September and paddle over to Beaver and Grace Island. I talked to several forum members on here and many thought that Beaver Island was a very doable paddle. However, I was warned by several that Grace Island is not for the inexperienced. Anyone that hinted at maybe giving it a try told me that I should have a fresh weather report that suggests perfect conditions before departing, I should not stay overnight at the island in case the weather conditions changed, and that if any part of me becomes uncertain of my abilities, I should turn back immediately.

Overall, the majority suggested that I not take any chances. Many endorsed taking some open water canoeing courses so that I could gain the proper skills necessary to make such a paddle. I will admitt that I was saddened by the feedback, because I do not expect to frequent the west side of the island often since its takes me 4 more hours to drive to Grand Portage for the Voyageur II to get dropped off at Windigo than it takes me to get to Houghton for the Ranger III to get dropped off at Rock Harbor. That said, I was really hoping to hit the only two paddle campgrounds on the west side of the island since I will have all the time in the world to check out places found in the center and east side of the island.

If anyone would like to offer more advice, to throw out additonal comments, or simply reconfirm the conclusions I have come to, I will be checkings this posting here and there for further feedback. Thanks a lot.

[colvinch]

If I were planning that trip to those Islands I wouldn't think twice about it, but that means lots of weather planning and the possibility of being stuck out there for a day or two. One thing you have to remember is the water is often the calmest early in the morning and late in the evening. You also need to know how fast you can paddle so if you are attempting to canoe later in the day how long it will actually take you to get where you are going. I always have my gps sitting on my pack that has my compass up with time and speed. I think if we have good wind and wave action we usually cruise around 3mph, I have been pushed even faster across Siskwit topped out at 6mph, that was fun and scary at the same time, fun riding the waves with the wind, but tacking back into them and the wind was really hard and lots of water being splashed into the boat, but alot of the time you are paddleing into the wind and are barely moving at 1mph, know your limitations.
The problem with renting a boat and not borrowing or owning one yourself is you don't have much time to get to know the ride. how to balance your gear and yourself to make a stable smooth ride. If you are renting an old metal Grumman you really don't need to worry about it they can take a lot of weight and are balanced well, but with the newer light weight canoes they can feel very tippy and if you don't have a lot of experience you can over compensate for this tippy feeling by trying to balance your weight and it's very easy to tip or get off course.
One thing I would suggest learning, of course in warm and protected waters is, how to right a canoe in open water. This is a worst case scenario but could happen in a second, you flip your canoe, how do you get back in and save yours and your partners ass. there are plenty of videos out there on how to do it, it's very difficult to do but could save your life if you were ever in that situation.
Make sure you have a nice PFD, coast guard rated one that fits really well, they are not comfortable and are hot as can be but always wear one on the big water and even the protected bays, You know as well as anyone on this board how fast the weather can change on ISRO and in a boat/canoe you have to expect it will.

[Rafiki]

One thing you have to remember is the water is often the calmest early in the morning and late in the evening.

I was unaware of this fact. Thank you for throwing this out there. It is definitely something someone should know about in advance. Out of curiousity, what do you mean by early in the morning or late in the evening. Can you give me some frames of time that I should be considering.

[Rafiki]

So I have run into a problem. But before I get into it, I truly want to thank everyone for their help with my canoeing questions. Besides everyone that has responded to my thread, Colvinch, MikeT, Johnhens, Ingo, Srparr, and several others have taken the time to PM me to discuss matters. So thank you very much for those that I mentioned and those that I may have forgotten.

So here is my dilemma. John gave me this link http://www.illinoispaddling.org/instructions as a starting point to find a place where I can take classes. I checked out all of the links, at least the ones that were still valid, over the past couple of days and talked to several people. Everyone that I spoke with, and I mean everyone (not just the majority), told me that in order to be able to canoe over to Grace Island, it would take years of training and experience for me to be at a safe enough level to make such a travel. This was clearly emphasized by everyone, even when I assured them that I would only be paddling a short way out of Washington Harbor and not accross Lake Superior itself. I respected everyones opinion, because I honestly did not think anyone would suggest that I could have enough training by the end of the summer to tackle such a trip by the time September rolled around. I was a little shocked that "several years" instead of a "couple of years" was used when expressing how long it would take me to be able to conquer a paddle to Grace Island. Do you agree with everyones advice or are they being overly precautious with matters?

Here is another thing everyone said, and again, I mean everyone. They told me that a canoe is not a safe option and that only a sea kayak would be appropriate for such a trip. Does anyone or everyone in the forums agree with this bit of advice?

Finally, and here is the most unsettling of all things, none of the establishments and clubs that I called said they taught lessons that dealt with open water paddling. Everyone said that the classes that were taught at their organizations were more geared towards river and calmer water paddling. Furthermore, the people from various parties that I contacted would go on to suggest other places that I try contacting to see it such courses were taught at their locations. While I did find a couple of more resources to do research on and find out if open water paddling classes were something they offered, in the end, they were just like all of the other places and would try to refer me to another group that could assist me with my needs. Eventually, everything revolved back to my starting point when I began getting referrals to places I had already called.

Right now I'm feeling lost and let down. I don't know where to turn to begin making any steps towards Grace Island. I'm feeling as though it might be my Mount Everest that I will never be able to climb. Ok, so maybe I am overexaggerating a bit, but it is disheartening to know that none of the organizations that I contacted seemed like they could help me along with regards to reaching my goals. Does anyone have any further suggestions that could help me along my way. As of right now, the consensus on the board has stated that I should not try to do such a trip without getting to a more experienced level with a canoe and that it would be a grave risk on my part to attempt such a trip given my lack of skills. Therefore, I feeling pretty stuck right now. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. Thanks.

[drobarge]

My advice is short and simple. Go borrow\rent a canoe, put on a life jacket and go for a paddle on a small warm inland lake locally.
Do that and you just got started.

[Rafiki]

Ya thats the plan Dro. I am going to go to my Uncles and right behind his house is a lake. We are going to get as much practice as possible with his canoe. Although, while it is a step, according to many, inland lakes are nothing compared to the open waters of a Great Lake. I realize baby steps our necessary, but would like to have a plan mapped out in my head on how to incorporate my own weekend practicing along with lessons from someone else who is far greater an expert than I am.

[BestDayEver]

Hey, Rafiki. Did you call Geneva Kayak Center? I'm in Chicagoland too and play around at their whitewater park in Yorkville. I know they do canoe and sea kayaking classes too http://www.genevakayak.com/courses/gkclevel1.html. Superior on a rough day in a canoe would be something else. If you go with the sea kayak option, I wouldn't even think about an IR route until you know the stokes, can roll like a champ, can wet exit and reenter in your sleep, in 50 degree water. Have to be prepared for that lake, and we all know things happen on trips.

I did an IR kayak trip 2 years ago when it was pretty rough out. We actually had to change up our route and stay away from the unprotected shoreline where giants were rolling in. We were in open kayaks, which is pretty sketchy to begin with, battling 4-6 footers sneaking through the island gaps between Moskey and Rock Harbor. I can second the near shore challenges as well. I went out to Pictured Rocks last year, in another sketchy open kayak, when it was quite tame out. The wave bounce backs, dropoffs and underwater structure turned it into a wild ride.

[Midwest Ed]

I had the same cravings as you. After hiking most of the trails I wanted to see the Island from the different perspective that paddling offers. Since it's your first IR paddling experience, why start with Grace Island? There are many other paddling routes that will give you great experience and great experiences.

In September of 1978 I started as a novice with a borrowed Grumman canoe and a novice friend. We took the Voyageur to Rock Harbor and then immediately set out for Moskey Basin. We got as far as Daisy Farm that first afternoon. This gave us a long but relatively easy and safe exposure to the big lake. Our following nights were spent at Moskey Basin, Lake Ritchie, Wood Lake, Lake Whittlesey, and ending at Chippewa Harbor where we were both sad and glad to see the Voyageur enter the harbor that last morning. It was so cold that last night a pot of water froze solid next to my head while sleeping in a shelter. The portages on this route are relatively short and easy with the exception of MB to Lake Ritchie which is easy but not very short.

If you are pressed for time there are many options composed with fewer nights. You can also get dropped at Daisy Farm to avoid the modest perils of Rock Harbor and the potential weather delays it might impose upon you.

These many years later, having a bit of power boating and water safety experience under my belt I would have done a couple of things better/differently but my rating of the overall experience does not change. I am planning to buy a canoe soon for use on the Mississippi River and one day hope to return with it to experience the northeast shoreline waters of IR.

~Ed

[colvinch]

One thing you have to remember is the water is often the calmest early in the morning and late in the evening.

I was unaware of this fact. Thank you for throwing this out there. It is definitely something someone should know about in advance. Out of curiousity, what do you mean by early in the morning or late in the evening. Can you give me some frames of time that I should be considering.

Early morning, first light to about 9am ish, this is depending on the weather of course but for some reason the winds are usually calm then. I have gone from McCargo to Pickeral now 4 times, the earlier we went the calmer the wind and wave action is. the first time we made it to Indian point there were rollers hitting shore and it was crazy, since it was our first time doing this paddle we thought that if we left early which wasn't early enough it would be calm. Not realizing the paddle would take us an hour or more we missed the really calm part of the morning and had to battle some serious waves. Looking back I would not attempt this paddle again in those conditions ( the crazy thing is there wasn't a breeze to be seen and the cove was like glass all the way to the opening to Superior, the next 3 times I have made that paddle 2 times were in the morning before 8am and it was very calm, the last time I made it we left from chicken bone, had lunch at Birch Island and really got a good look at the water it was around noon when we made it there but we were lucky it was a calm day and was an easy paddle.
The problem with the paddle from there to Pickeral is you have about 3 miles of Big water until you are in protected waters, with absolutely no shore protection due to the rock faces.
In the evening the closer it gets to sundown it seems the lake and winds die down, now this is not always the case but that is my experience.
You always need to be aware of the wind and wave action, storms can brew up and pass over the lake in no time at all. If you get into a sticky situation just be calm and don't over react, over reacting in a canoe is the worst thing you can do, especially one that is heavily weighted down with gear and then you add two bodies to it that now make it top heavy.

A great way to learn how to canoe is find a canoe livery on a river and take a 2-6 hour canoe trip. Start with a slow wide river and go out and have fun. Learn how to paddle, steer, correct over stearing, tracking and how to deal with a boat that feels unbalanced a tippy.

I have a friend that lives in chicago and goes somewhere north up by wisconsin on some canoe trips on some river I will ask him the name and send it your way
I did find this
http://www.paddleaway.com/rentals

Talked to my buddy and he said Starved Rock, Illinois river. I've been there before not canoeing but to SR I think it's in Ottawa, straight west on 55??

[Gimp]

Rafiki - Do you recall when I advised you to exercise caution about taking the Minong trail solo? I suspect that I enticed you with that rather than discouraged you as I had tried to do. Well anyway, with regard to your current plan, multiply my previous cautions X 10. When I think of Lake Superior hypothermia is my greatest concern. I've had it twice in my life and would be dead from either instance now if someone hadn't been with me to notice my mental state or lack there of. If you take an unexpected dunk while you're by yourself you will be in great danger. You mitigate danger by having experience. Right now yours is minimal, and you need to gain it. Using this summer you can take some inland lake and river trips to gain experience in loading a canoe, portaging a canoe, etc. so that you will be decently prepared for a trip to IR next year to the more protected waters and inland lakes. Michigans UP has several quiet water canoe areas and there are a number of rivers where you can get dropped off for multi hour to multi day trips. How about Boundry Waters? Watch this clip and you will want to go there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM2Zp5DuWv4 It looks like great experience.

FYI, due to increasing foot problems my backpacking days are pretty much over so I bought a solo canoe (the one in that video actually). People at work are asking me if I'm taking it to Isle Royale this summer. My response is 'no, I may like a good adventure, but I don't have a death wish'. I have a great deal of outdoor experience but little that counts with a canoe. Thus I'm spending my summer gaining experience. I'm going to hit a couple of canoe areas in the UP this summer that require portaging, and may go to Craig Lake State park for some larger lake experience. Next summer I will probably take my canoe to IR, but will only take a route that keeps me off of the big lake except for some of the most sheltered areas. I too want to see everything on Isle Royale, but one should keep in mind that it's not going anywhere and those sites you want to visit will probably all be there for the rest of your life so there is no hurry.

Lastly, my spouse is rather dubious about me and this canoe. She had already put her foot down when I had considered a kayak. I don't need her reading any stories about someone dying while on a solo canoe trip to Isle Royale. So please don't give my wife a reason to insist I can't go to IR with my canoe because then I'd just have to defy her and the situation wouldn't be pleasant. You don't want mess with my domestic bliss do you?

[Rafiki]

Rafiki - Do you recall when I advised you to exercise caution about taking the Minong trail solo?

Maybe. Kind of. But I guess recalling that I did it last year got the best of me

Well anyway, with regard to your current plan, multiply my previous cautions X 10.

X it by 10. Check

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM2Zp5DuWv4

Awesome Video. Awesome Dog. Awesome Soundtrack.

Lastly, my spouse is rather dubious about me and this canoe. She had already put her foot down when I had considered a kayak. I don't need her reading any stories about someone dying while on a solo canoe trip to Isle Royale. So please don't give my wife a reason to insist I can't go to IR with my canoe because then I'd just have to defy her and the situation wouldn't be pleasant. You don't want mess with my domestic bliss do you?

HA HA HA. Domestic Bliss I can promise you one thing, you need not worry about me messing it up for you. As of right now, it is my plan to hitch a ride with Richard on his sailboat to check out Beaver and Grace Island. I decided to take everyones advice on this matter and wait until next year to do any canoeing after I get plenty of practice this summer. Take some classes in fall. An indoor one in Winter. And more practice in the spring. Rest assure that your domestic bliss will not suffer on the account of me not heeding your warnings.

P.S. I notice that you use a kayak-like paddle for your canoe. Can you get away with doing that on any canoe? I like the idea of using a double edged paddle.