Duncan Bay Dock

[Ingo]

I like Duncan Bay. Unfortunately, the dock is slated to be removed in the future.

Tampico, what's the plan? I can imagine the rational, but if I was a boater I'd want to have that option. It blew 30+ from the SW at the Narrows one trip--a couple boats went by and wisely continued to the Duncan Bay dock. They would have been beat to death at the narrows--maybe 1 boat can get on the inside?

[Tampico]

According to sections of the 2011 Wilderness and Backcountry Management Plan (WBMP):

Implementation of the 1998 General Management Plan.
Full implementation of Isle Royale’s GMP (1998) would continue, including the planned
removal of the dock and break wall at Siskiwit Bay, removal of the docks at Three Mile and
Duncan Bay, relocation of the dock at McCargoe Cove closer to the cove’s entrance, and
addition of new overnight docking and campgrounds at John’s Island, Washington Island,
Fisherman’s Home, Wright Island, Crystal Cove and McCargoe Cove. Additional assessment of
environmental impacts and compliance documentation would be completed before implementing
these changes.

Shelters would continue to be maintained, though per the GMP no additional shelters would be
added to campgrounds within designated wilderness, and shelters will eventually be removed
from the Duncan Bay and Siskiwit Bay campgrounds, after the docks are removed.

When the docks and shelters at Duncan Bay and Siskiwit Bay campgrounds are removed (per the
GMP), picnic tables will also be removed.

If you haven't seen a copy of the WBMP, check it out. They (the Park Service) are planning all kinds of changes to the park. Some I like, but most I don't.

[Midwest Ed]

If you haven't seen a copy of the WBMP, check it out. They (the Park Service) are planning all kinds of changes to the park. Some I like, but most I don't.

For everyone's convenience, here is a link to the 2011 WBMP report.

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/showFile.cf ... 2011%2Epdf

[Tampico]

Thanks for the link. I have a copy, but didn't want to upload it because it's 16MB.

[bergman]

Anybody know if Duncan Bay will continue as a campground? Will the existing campsite keep its picnic table and standing fire grill? I assume the 3 fire grills on the peninsula will be history(?)-yet undetermined?

[Tampico]

From what I can gather from the WBMP, Duncan Bay will revert to a "wilderness" campsite. The dock, shelters, picnic table, and grill will all be removed. I suppose they'll leave the outhouse.

[Ingo]

Thanks for the reference/link. Haven't had the chance to look at it yet though. I suppose there's a little solace in the slow wheels of bureaucracy since they're still there.

[bergman]

Are these shelters getting the axe, in part b/c they are in sad shape? Not sure how long shelters have been in the park, but i always thought they were there for safety (hypothermia/death) and not convenience/comfort. Coming off 5finger bay during a storm, the shelters at DB are vital IMO.

Aren't they entitled to protection for their cultural heritage, namely the graffiti on their heralded walls?

[Ernest T Bass]

I too, am really surprised that they would remove the shelters. I could see it if they were in such disrepair that they were falling down. I suspect that they do not want to have to continue with the upkeep and maintenance, but why not wait until it outlives some of it's usefulness?

On the other hand, I work for the VA, so I know how goofy things can sometimes be...

[Tampico]

It's been a while since I read it through, but it appears their (stated) goal is to create three separate experiences in the park: hiker, paddler and boater. And by separate I mean separate, keeping the mixing of the three groups to a minimum.

This is a mistake, I think.

[Ingo]

I too, am really surprised that they would remove the shelters. I could see it if they were in such disrepair that they were falling down. I suspect that they do not want to have to continue with the upkeep and maintenance, but why not wait until it outlives some of it's usefulness?

Since the shelters are at campgrounds with docks (and vice versa), I think it's a maintenance issue since they can't get a boat in once the dock is removed (of any size anyways). They were re-roofing shelters at Belle Isle once when I was there, and hauling roofing paper, etc. by wheelbarrow back and forth to the dock. Didn't look like much fun. It could be argued that they could to it with a beachable boat, but I'm speculating that's not going to happen.

[Ingo]

Not sure how long shelters have been in the park, but i always thought they were there for safety (hypothermia/death) and not convenience/comfort.

Interesting question. It may be the other way around.

[Capt Don]

If there was not enough money to send an employee (who, I was told opted to volunteer if need be) to do a program at a show that boasts the largest concentration of Isle Royale's visitor demographic, there can't be enough money to start removing perfectly good and viable structures, can there? If funding to maintain these places is a problem, will there be funding to maintain the structures that were built last season or construct the proposed campgrounds? I don't know if the plan forces these changes or not but certainly hope that some thought is given to the difference between "need" and "want" when it comes to changes and projects.

[Ingo]

If there was not enough money to send an employee (who, I was told opted to volunteer if need be) to do a program at a show that boasts the largest concentration of Isle Royale's visitor demographic, there can't be enough money to start removing perfectly good and viable structures, can there? If funding to maintain these places is a problem, will there be funding to maintain the structures that were built last season or construct the proposed campgrounds? I don't know if the plan forces these changes or not but certainly hope that some thought is given to the difference between "need" and "want" when it comes to changes and projects.

Been thinking that myself. Not quite sure what I think of the plan, but even if I fully supported it, I would hope that critical needs are resourced first, for the indefinite future.

[Tampico]

I honestly don't see much of this happening anytime soon. Building and removing concrete docks is expensive no matter where you are doing it. It will probably happen, but I doubt it will be anytime in the next 4 years.

in all likelihood, I'll be camping at Duncan Bay this August. I sure hope there's enough water at the dock.