First Time on IR - Itinerary questions

[spencermjc]

A friend and I are planning on obtaining a backcountry permit and are aware of the various zones which are off limit. Once we create our itinerary, what happens if we can't stick to it due to fatigue or some other unexpected circumstance, etc? Obviously for safeties sake it's best to be as on-track as possible, but I'm not sure how stressed I should be about this:)

[Rafiki]

The backcountry permit will suggest that you stay on target with your itinerary. Obviously if unexpected circumstances occur (trampled on my a cow moose on the account of accidentally getting in between her calf, mauled to the brink of death by a hunger pack of wolves, etc.) then I am sure the park rangers will be sympathetic. However, if there are concerns now about possible fatigue; maybe with this being your first time to the island, you should keep things simple and stick on the trails you find on the map. I would get familiar with the terrain and the island in general before tackling greater things. I will be going to the island for my 7th time in August and I do not plan to start doing the backcountry aspect of things until a couple more trips. If you are going to be daring though and live on the edge for your first time, please at least be prepared. Don't go into things all Willy Nilly. Be familiar with where water sources are located, how to use a compass, and other things that should not be taken for granted when planning such adventure. If you go into things with a solid plan and are well prepared, I'd like to hope that you would not experience fatigue or other unexpected circumstances that could have been avoided with proper planning. However, in the event that you did experience such things, knowing that you did your best to be prepared, I'd like to hope that the Rangers would grant you leniency. At the end of the day though, does it matter if it gets to that point. If you truly experience an unexpected circumstance or fatigue that does not allow you to continue where you intended, do you really think your going to be concerned about a citation from a Ranger. No disrespect to the Rangers of course, but if I'm going to be stopping somewhere earlier than intended, there is going to be a crap ton of things on my mind...things that would make me very happy to see a Ranger even if a citation was to ensue. Long story short, trust in yourself and abilities/knowledge before attempting such a trip, and in doing so, this should place worrying about Rangers at the bottom of your list.

[spencermjc]

Thanks for the response. We actually intend to stay at as many designated campsites as possible. The reason I'm interested in the backcountry question related to itinerary is becasue I'm using a hammock. I recieved the following e-mail from one of the rangers on the island with the permit and zone information map.

: Thank you for asking about hammocks. You have to restrict your hammock to the designated site, and yes you are right to be concerned. Campsites with trees that are suitable for hammocks are rare. Our regulations restricting campers to the designated sites prevents damage to vegetation, creation of social trails and ensures privacy between campsites. Isle Royale does offer off site camping in certain zones throughout the park. I am attaching two items that pertain to information about off site/cross country camping

[Rafiki]

Switching gears, on the note of hammocks, it sounds like the Ranger is suggesting you that you keep such devices restricted to the designated campground sites and that they are not appropriate for the backcountry. Therefore, what you do beyond this point is your choice, but certain choices could come with consequences that you should be willing to accept if you decide against your better judgement. I'm not claiming to be a saint by any means, just trying to provide perspective on what it probably already considered obvious and apparent in your eyes. Still, sometimes I am stubborn when it comes to following in suit with my better judgement and it takes someone putting things out there in very a cut and dry manner before I am willing to concede to my stubbornness. I am not saying you are anything like me, but if you are, there are your words of wisdom for the day

[tree rattt]

The rangers are the bosses for sure. They have it totally backwards in regard to hammocks in the backcountry sites.A hammock set up with a good choker on a tree of at least 10in diameter will suffer no ill effect what so ever.Now that is one setup on a tree that odds are will never see a hammock set up on it again. In a campsite the odds are pretty good that a tree will see multiple hammocks each year ....this constant abbrasion could pose a risk to the bark and cambium layers, posing an eventul decline in the trees ability to take up nutrients from strangeling the trees vascular system.....aka girdling the tree .keep in mind that soft woods (conifers) have a much thinner bark and they are particularly prone to peeling through the summer months.I would recomend seting up only on Decidious species whenever possible...most have a considerably thicker bark....also you may consider using the largest diameter tree possible to help spread the load of your choker.You may also consider the use of a towel or spare piece of clothing between the tree and the choker to help with abbrasion issues.I am sure that any preventative measures taken by you and your fellow hammockers will help demonstrate the awareness and appreciation of the arboreal species. The Rangers and everyone else will appreciate it.I read on a bumber sticker once that", trees make love quietly" so let them do their thing! ........just doing my part ro help the Lorax!

I will second the need for some good woodsman skills before leaving the trail....gps is electronic and can fail compass use is a must .This place can get thick so it can be easy to get turnt around ...aka lost!

Just a little tidd-bitt.....take it or leave it ....but have fun doing it!

[Rafiki]

Tree Rattt, I loved your presentation of trees and how each are affected differently by hammocks based off the kind of bark that they have around their outer layer. Thank you for your knowledge on matters. It is unfortunate that the Rangers do not allow hammocks in the backcountry, if it is fair to presume that the trees will most likely not encounter a lot of traffic due to the lack of people that go backcountrying. However, we do not know that this is their only reasoning for banning hammocks in the backcountry. If it turns out to be the case that it is, their only reason, then you might have a valid argument. At the end of the day, if you're not willing to go through the process of having the rule changed, as inconvenient as it might be to have such a burden placed on your shoulders in order to do things legally, then you do not have much of a defense if you meet a Ranger that is by the book and shows no interest in hearing your point of view because he or she (the ranger) does not feel as though it is his or her place to listen to such a perspective and that his or her's only purpose is to enforce the law...not to interpret the fairness of the law.

Like I said...listen to your better judgement even though I will admit it may be difficult to do so especially if you do not believe your hammock will have a tremendous affect in a negative manner on the trees that you attach it to in the backcountry setting

[Lucky Chicken]

which campgrounds do you plan to stay in? We just got back from a west end trip and Island Mine, Siskiwit, Feldtmann, and Huginnin all had good hammock-able sites. Not all of them were, but if you don't get one of them you can ground pitch... you will want a sleeping pad anyway for insulation in the hammock/ shelters.

[Lucky Chicken]

ps: the other guy in my group is a hammock camper... the only reason I paid attention to the trees ability to hang lol

[spencermjc]

Thanks Lucky Chicken - we are going to be on the east end of the island, but good to know. We have extender ropes for our hammocks so this should help find workable trees.

I took the NPS response I posted above as it being ok to hammock camp in the backcountry rather than a "no". I've e-mailed for clarification. I agree that with a good pair to tree slings or other coverage on the tree that there would be no negative impact to the trees.

[hooky]

To echoe tree rattt, the rangers have it wrong. A good set of straps will protect the trees. I had a hammock up every weekend last summer in my backyard (and a more than a few weeknights) in the same spot and the trees show no sign of ever being used for my hang.

I also agree that it sounds like they said it was OK to hang in the backcountry.

[Rafiki]

So I may or may not have misinterpreted things. However, this is the line I was considering:

You have to restrict your hammock to the designated site, and yes you are right to be concerned.

I thought being that backcountry areas do not have "designated sites", there would not be an appropriate placement available to set up a hammock in the backcountry.

[hooky]

I read it in the context of the campsites, the tent sites in particular vs. back country. Especially since he said campsites with suitable trees are rare.

[tree rattt]

When climbing trees I set my climbing line in the crotch of the tree and all of my weight +my gear slides on the rope through the crotch of the tree.Unless it is the afor mentioned thin barked conifer....Balsam and White pine are the worst....there is little if any damage to the bark. When I climb a conifer I use a strap with rings that goes around the tree...it is called a cambium saver, or false crotch, this prevents the burning through the bark and the inevitable gummed up pitchy climbing line to. So like you said a good set of straps and if necessary a little more padding if you would feel so inclined will do the trick just fine.

As far as the hammock goes I would recomend the "ignorance is bliss approach " don't ask and they can't say no I would not consider bringing too much attention to the subject ......the next thing they will write policy on it ....that WILL end badly. For the time being it seems to be open to a very small amount of interpretation.Most of our freedoms are lost due to a few missinformed people ...."tree huggers "that think anything done to a tree is a bad thing.Soil compaction does more damage to the trees then hammocks .....so maybe people shouldn't walk anywhere that there are tree roots???? I don't use a hammock myself but I do think that those of you that do should have the right to....you aren't hurting anything....so why not hang out and enjoy youself the way you would like to!

[tree rattt]

Has anyone checked the compedium for the actual rules.....if any?

[Ingo]

I think it's just one of those things that there isn't a rule about, but they discourage because of those folks who don't know better--protecting the trees, respecting the space of other sites, etc.