Series of questions

[kanonen]

Ok, so we are going for a week in July (monday to sunday) and doing McCargoe-->Todd H-->Little Todd--> N. Desor-->Huginnin-->Windigo. We have some diverse questions hence the post in Misc:

-How cold does it get at night? Anyone camped without a sleeping bag, would just a liner or maybe a +10 deg liner do!
-Anyone did N.Desor to Huginnin. 14.5 miles. Looks like a N.D to Windigo is tough one from what we have read, we are finishing in Huginnin!! (we are in our early 30s, not bad shape-I think!)
-How is huginin? Any impressions?
-What's the best shoe situation for hiking minong? From what we have read there are some water passages...So high boots and waterproof, how bad would those boots for mobility in the minong terrain?
-and finally , Do you guys think the ferry ticket is fair? I am not being a jerk but I think it is a total monopoly type of a ripoff !!

Thanks all, we are so excited about IR...2 months away...

[Keweenaw]

Hi K,

Cold at night - might be 40, might be 60, might be foggy near the shore. I would not go without a bag.

Never been to Hugginin - need to go one of these days.

Shoes - Minong is up and down rocky ridges a LOT - so boots with ankle support and non-slip soles are a must.

Ferry tickets - price is fair. These ferries operate on a fixed schedule, so if there is only one person, the ferry runs and loses big time on that run. Later when there are full boats, they make money. Beats the heck out of having them only run if enough people show up!

Bob

[Tom]

Like Keweenaw says, nights could be 40, could be 60. If you're near the big lake, well, it's still quite cool in July. A light breeze can drop the temp 10-15 degrees, easy. I've always brought a bag, and always seem to be snuggled into it.

Shoes - I only wear them once at camp and the pack is off. For multi-day backpacking, you really should be using a good hiking boot, and have them BROKEN IN. I don't think it has to go too high on the calf; but certainly ankle protection. Beyond just the rocky trail, there will be places where you're walking in understory and might not be able to see the trail below your feet. Between all the roots and rocks, you don't want to twist an ankle. As for the water, most of the crossings will typically also be over a boot in depth - More like a knee or waist, in places. However, there are logs and rocks that, if you're lucky, are above the water, or at least only minimally below. A good sole goes a long way on the slippery stuff...

Hugginin - One of those "I'm going to get there one of these trips" campsite. Thought about it last year when we did the Minong just like you will be doing; but visions of dry shelter and a sandwich from the store danced in our heads and we elected to enjoy the last night in comfort at Washington Creek.

Ferry - Like Bob said, I don't think anyone is getting rich offering the service. As a concessionaire for NPS, they have to agree to plenty (set routes, mail service, etc) I'm sure. Not unlike the utility surcharge (21%?), Isle Royale is just not as inexpensive of an experience as other parks.
HOWEVER, it's worth every cent!

[Ingo]

Like Tom & Bob I haven't been to Hugginin, but from all reports it's worth it!

re Boat prices, totally fair. Prices are negotiated and set by the NPS. These boats are not cheap, and not cheap to operate, and I suspect that if either of the 2 private boats decided to stop service that there may not be anyone to replace them. A couple years ago the seaplane service was lost for a time because there wasn't anyone to replace the outfit that quit. It currently seems questionable each year whether it will operate or not. And if you look at those prices the boats are cheap! The families that run the boat services (the Ranger III expected, which is owned and operated by the NPS) have deep ties to the island and I believe that we owe them a debt of gratitude--if they were rolling in the dough there would be boats lined up to take their place!

Have a great trip (you will) and enjoy the boat ride

John

[Kevinl]

Like the others here, I have considered Huginnin, but been sidetracked by a shelter and ice cream and soda at the store and ended up staying at Washington Creek instead. But I have dayhiked there a couple times--beautiful spot. If I recall, the group site looked best. and the trail, either direction, is a good one. If you feel like the rest of us when you get near Windigo, you can always just flip-flop your order. It's only a 3-4 mile hike, so you would still have plenty of time to make the boat.

Regarding boots, I always bring plenty of socks and keep a dry pair easy to find. No matter how wet those boots might get, it's amazing what a fresh pair of dry socks can do mid-hike. Unless it's a real rainy spring, you shouldn't have too much problems with water in July. Most streams are jumpable but the beaver dam crossings can get soggy--but that's near the end anyway. As stated before, bring good boots, broken in.

I've only taken the boats from Garnd Portage, but obviously I don't feel I'm getting screwed or I wouldn't keep paying them. Considering what they put up with (passengers and weather and living on a boat) those guys are rock stars!

Have a great time.

[rxgac]

i'd ditto everything that's already been said. last year was my first time there and the overall ruggedness was what i was left with. definetly do boots. you're not always going to be hiking on soft forest loam or prepared surface.
as far as temps, take a look at the underground weather website. it will let you do current and historical temp data. navigate to the wunder maps section and you can actually get info from windigo. gives a nice idea of what it was actually doing last year for the specific week you're going, the historic averages, and what the temps the weeks previous to this year are doing.

[kanonen]

Folks, thanks for the info. I guess we will post some info about huginnin when we get there! So the key is not to get tempted by a warm sandwich from Windigo after hiking 11 miles when a couple more are needed to Huginnin...got it.

Looks like boots are a must. As for the sleeping bag, I will carry it for the peace of mind, but from the average temps and with 2 people body heat in a tent I am pretty sure i will only use the liner (I hope I'm wrong actually)...

Oh one more question, is gecaching illegal or what! There only 2 geocahes in the Island, I was hoping to find a ton. I guess off-trail hiking and bushwaking is a no go on IR!

Thanks again for the info that is helpful.

PS. thanks for the info about the ferry...i have a tendency to think that anyone that charges fuel surcharge when the gallon is $2 must be ripping people off. But your points make sense, i missed the idea that they run on a fixed schedule ...

[Keweenaw]

Off-trail hiking/bushwacking/getting lost is totally LEGAL - camping outside of a designated campground requires a backcountry permit and has lots of regs regarding where you can camp. Anyway, feel free to wander all you like. I seem to recall that geocaching is not permitted, I think because of the official Wilderness status.

Bob

[Capt Don]

I want to thank everyone for their support, as most of you know, we do work long hours with almost no days off from April to Late October, because if we didn't love this and do it, you can bet virtually no one else would, the investment would greatly outweigh the return.

As far as a fuel surcharge being a "ripoff", $2 a gallon fuel, you think we just pull into the local filling station? I'll share some things with you, our fuel is at $4.29 a gallon, thats right you read it correctly, we have to buy fuel from the marina, a 10,000 gallon tank was filled early last September at the height of the fuel price spike, we are the only user. As soon as we run it down some this season they will top it off with (hopefully) lower priced fuel and the surcharge will adjust as it always has. I don't want to charge a fuel surcharge, I have to. Our prices go up 3-4% a year based on the consumer price index, nothing else, they are set and published once a year without the option to adjust them, in the 3 years we have had a fuel surcharge, fuel has increased over 300%. We just can't absorb that, I'm sorry, the math just doesn't work with the least visited park and a short season. We put the service we provide, the privledge of enabling people to experience a truly unique park, way above our financial gain. Granted we still need to make a profit, if it was larger I wouldn't spend the off season driving around the country in a semi-truck to pay the bills, but thats the way it is. The park service this year actually suggested that we raise prices higher than we did, but we said no. We realize, that as a visitor to Isle Royale, this is a costly place for you to get to and we strive to keep it affordable. But, it is also a costly place for us to get to.
Thank you for your understanding.
Don

[kanonen]

Ok, I am glad I asked the question then! Capt Don, thanks for clarifying. Can't wait to visit in July.

[kanonen]

ok, last question here (about minong ). What's the procedure for a backcountry permit. We are thinking about splitting the part between N.Desor to Huginnin and camp somewhere in the middle. Do they give a permit automatically if you ask for it?

[trailgoat]

My thoughts...

I never blink at the cost of the boat ride from Copper Harbor or the Voyageur fees for a water taxi. I suppose I'd pay whatever they charged since it's that or nothing. The service on both boats has always been courteous and professional. These guys are pros.

I always hike Isle Royale with a full-grain leather, high-cut boot (Asolo TPS 520's). It's probably too much boot for some, but they're the most comfortable boots I've ever owned and they're certainly 'peace of mind' while hiking solo. A twisted ankle wouldn't be fun.

I've never been to Hugginnin.

I use a 20-degree WM down bag---just right for those nights in the low 40's. I use it as a quilt on milder evenings.

Have a blast on your trip. Be safe.

Just six weeks before I'm back on the island! Can't wait.

[ScoutDad]

A 20 degree bag is the way to go...I tried to lightweight it in July 2004 with a 40 or 50 degree bag and froze my last night on the Island.

[loreeh]

I tried a 40 or 45 degree down bag one aug. and was okay on one side of the island almost too warm but when on the south side it got cold with the wind off the lake, we froze but then pulled our tent over us in some of the shelters and that helped. I'm going June 15th and got a new bag that's +15, so excited to try it.

[Keweenaw]

ok, last question here (about minong ). What's the procedure for a backcountry permit. We are thinking about splitting the part between N.Desor to Huginnin and camp somewhere in the middle. Do they give a permit automatically if you ask for it?

That's probably the best area to camp off-trail. I think the permit is pretty much automatic; mainly they want to make sure you know what you are doing and go over the regs with you (1/4 mile from trails/lakes....). Just ask about it when you register.

Bob