Newbie needing help

[tfoster]

Hi there. First off, I am so happy to have found this forum! I have already spent hours upon hours reading through posts and they are SO informative and helpful! I'm hoping that you will humor me by reading my background info and will then share your thoughts with me.

Our family of six is planning a trip to IR this late June / early July time frame. We're taking a road trip from NY to northern Wisconsin and planning IR after our stay in Wisconsin. We're flexible in that we're willing to get to IR from MN or MI, whichever will work best for appropriate hiking/camping for us.

The players:
ME(40): Pretty fit and healthy mom of four who loves camping and being outside. I'm up for hiking up easy-to-moderate mountains, but I don't enjoy being on cliffs or edges (fear of falling off). I have lots of energy and am our chief trip planner.
DH(45): Doesn't love camping (misses his beloved TV) but tolerates it pretty well. Doesn't always stay for our full camping trips - either joins us later or goes home in the middle for a couple nights - and once in a while doesn't come at all. Strong but a little heavier than he should be which impacts how fast he can travel and how far he wants to travel.
DS(15): Has been involved with immersive wilderness "classes" (for lack of a better word) for several years and is the one who suggested the IR trip. Tough kid who knows how to handle himself well outdoors. He's my big helper for planning this trip.
DD(10): Has been involved in the less intense wilderness classes and loves camping and trailing but does NOT like to do strenuous climbs. She likes easier romps where she can more leisurely and easily enjoy the surroundings.
DS(7): Tough little cookie who handles himself pretty well in the outdoors even up relatively tough climbs.
DS(5): Another tough little cookie, though this one is a bit more reckless in that he refuses to accept the fact that he could ever fall. This means we have to be careful with where we take him because he just doesn't think he needs to be cautious about roots and edges and such. Before we go anywhere, I need to talk to in-the-know folks to make sure we're going someplace where if he does fall, he'll won't fall off a cliff or anything.

For some reason, I'm naturally more drawn to taking the MN boat than the MI boat, but I'm not bound to that. I'm hoping we can do 4 or 5 nights on the island.

At first, it seemed to me that perhaps we could do the Feldtmann Ridge either to the lake or (if we were feeling really ambitious) to Siskiwit Bay and back, but now I'm thinking that might be tough for the little ones (I've read that trail might not necessarily be maintained well??), and it seems like even going to Feldtmann Lake might be pushing it. Is my understanding correct that it's a 9-mile hike from Windigo to Feldtmann Lake? Other options would be to cut down our nights and just stay at Washington Creek (for 3 nights) doing day trips from there or to go up to Huginnin Cove though I've read some have trouble with part of that loop so I'm not sure how well the kids would do.

A totally different plan would be the McCargoe Cove to Chippewa Harbor trip. This seems like it might be easier in that the campgrounds seem pretty close together and I've read very good things about them. But we wouldn't be near either of the "centers", so taking a shower, getting safe water, and/or buying food from a store wouldn't even be a possibility. I REALLY like the idea of swimming in Moskey Basin though. I'm also wondering how it would be to go from West Chickenbone right to Moskey Basin without staying at Lake Richie in between. How rough of a trip is that? And then how is the trip from Moskey Basin to Chippewa Harbor?

And then, of course, an obvious option would be to stay in the Rock Harbor area and maybe go to Moskey Basin from there.

Some general questions:
1. Will the bugs be noticeably worse inland than near the coast or at that time of year will it be the same all over (i.e. BAD)?
2. If you swim in infected water and wipe your mouth with your wet hand, can you get sick from that?
3. Do you assume the basins, harbors, and the lake waters are infected or is it just the inner lakes and streams?
4. We really want to see moose. Are there particular areas of the island where that is more likely?
5. If we were to do the Rock Harbor -> Moskey Basin option, would we get a true "Lake Superior" experience or would it be diminished by the little islands in that area?
6. Sorry if this is silly, but we don't have wolves out here - would we need to worry about a wolf attacking the little guys?
7. What kinds of foods are sold at the Windigo store? Foods that make one feel as if they've had a "real" meal?

Thanks so much for reading and for any thoughts and/or suggestions you can provide!

[Ingo]

Hi and welcome to the forums! It sounds like you're thinking about this right. My first inclination would be a McCargoe Cove to Rock Harbor trip with Moskey Basin on the way. Somewhat farther than McCargoe to Chippewa, but you have the incentive of "civilization" at the end for those who need it . And I like the Voyageur II, too.

Another option would be to take the Voyageur to Rock Harbor, hike to Moskey, then have it pick you up either at Daisy Farm or Chippewa Harbor. This saves you having to get back to R.H. Don't know the distances off hand though. I do think that for a family trip the distances between campgrounds on the Rock Harbor end give you more options and bailouts.

1. Will the bugs be noticeably worse inland than near the coast or at that time of year will it be the same all over (i.e. BAD)?

Generally yes, but of course you can never say for sure.

2. If you swim in infected water and wipe your mouth with your wet hand, can you get sick from that?

Can't say absolutely no, but have never heard of it.

3. Do you assume the basins, harbors, and the lake waters are infected or is it just the inner lakes and streams?

As far as filtering water, yes, assume everything needs to be filter.

4. We really want to see moose. Are there particular areas of the island where that is more likely?

The million dollar question (without a good answer). I've hard about 50% luck just hiking out to Scoville Pt from the lodge.

5. If we were to do the Rock Harbor -> Moskey Basin option, would we get a true "Lake Superior" experience or would it be diminished by the little islands in that area?

Absolutely! and not at all diminished!

6. Sorry if this is silly, but we don't have wolves out here - would we need to worry about a wolf attacking the little guys?

No, there has never been a wolf attack. They have been less cautious around humans the last few years, however.

7. What kinds of foods are sold at the Windigo store? Foods that make one feel as if they've had a "real" meal?

Sounds like it should be a great trip and one that will be remembered for a long time, regardless of where you go.

John I.

[fonixmunkee]

Greetings and welcome to the forum! I'm sure you will find the answers to all your questions and much, much more here. My guess is that you will find Isle Royale much different than your wilderness experiences in NY.

First off, regarding your route, if you are questioning anything about your trip to Isle Royale (gear, personal excitement/willingness, health, etc), the McCargoe to Chippewa Harbor trek is perfect. It's one of the easier hikes. On a scale of 1-5, with "5" being "very freakin' hard (see Minong Ridge trail)", and "1" being "piece of cake," this one is a 2.5. Plus, you'll get to see three beautiful areas of the island: McCargoe's wildlife and beauty at night, Lake Chickenbone's beauty and fishing, and Chippewa Harbor's spectacular views.

The McCargoe to Chippewa route is the very first hike I took on the island. It was my "test run," per se, and I've since gone back and done it twice more. I think everyone will enjoy the hike and feel challenged in your group. Plus, depending on how you split it up, you can get a good taste of "back country camping" (that is, in a tent) and regular old-fashioned Isle Royale living (that is, in a shelter, depending on availability).

John I (above) already did an excellent job answering your general questions, but I'll add some of my two cents as well

1. Will the bugs be noticeably worse inland than near the coast or at that time of year will it be the same all over (i.e. BAD)?

It's always a crap shoot with bugs due to the tumultuous seasons of Isle Royale (thanks, Lake Superior!), but in my experience with that time of season (June/July), my answer would be yes. Always bring bug spray to Isle Royale, and I'd even recommend a head net. Good general guidance is that bugs aren't as bad near the colder shores of Lake Superior, and on wind-exposed ridges.

2. If you swim in infected water and wipe your mouth with your wet hand, can you get sick from that?

I would imagine anything is possible, but in eight years of countless times swimming in Isle Royale (as well as in the northern Wisconsin and Minnesota area), I've never had it happen, nor know anyone have it happen.

3. Do you assume the basins, harbors, and the lake waters are infected or is it just the inner lakes and streams?

Always treat your water, where ever you are...inland or on Lake Superior. It's a good practice where ever you, and will keep you healthy.

4. We really want to see moose. Are there particular areas of the island where that is more likely?

the McCargoe to Chippewa trek passes through the heart of moose territory. I've seen moose at McCargoe Cove, watched a bull moose eat about 100 feet away from me at Chickenbone Lake, heard them mate at Lake Richie, and waited an hour for them to pass on the trail outside of Chippewa Harbor. While I can't guarantee anything, I'd say your likelihood is high of seeing moose on the McCargoe to Chippewa trek.

5. If we were to do the Rock Harbor -> Moskey Basin option, would we get a true "Lake Superior" experience or would it be diminished by the little islands in that area?

Nothing is ever diminished on Isle Royale. True story. You'll get your fill of Lake Superior, beautiful landscapes, unique wildlife, breath-taking views, friendly people, serene woodland lakes, babbling creeks, historic landmarks, beautiful flora, and fresh air at Isle Royale. Anyone of these aspects will not diminish another on Isle Royale. You'll see.

6. Sorry if this is silly, but we don't have wolves out here - would we need to worry about a wolf attacking the little guys?

There are no reported wolf attacks, but as John I. said above, they are getting a little less afraid of humans. I think it's safe to say you have little to worry about. In the end, just like everyone says, they'll be more afraid of you than you are of them.

7. What kinds of foods are sold at the Windigo store? Foods that make one feel as if they've had a "real" meal?

You can get freeze-dried goods, candy, and some basic foodstuffs from the store. But if a Snickers bar or a bag of Doritos qualifies as a "real" meal to you, then the answer is yes...otherwise, you can't put together a sandwich or steak dinner there. You'd have to go to Rock Harbor for that.

Glad you found the forums. You'll find everyone here very helpful, year-round, and hopefully you'll come back and share your trip report...we especially love to hear from new people who just made their first trek. In all likeliness, you'll fall in love with Isle Royale--like most people do--and want to return.

Thanks for stopping by and asking your questions!

Thanks so much for reading and for any thoughts and/or suggestions you can provide![/quote]

[Tampico]

I love this place.

tfoster, you're in good hands...

[jerry]

I wish I had a wife that was interested in camping and or going to Isle Royale.

I've been on most of the trails of the island and I've seen more moose at Washington Creek campground and the Windigo visitor center area then anywhere else. Last year a cow and her twins walked down Washington Creek (past our shelter) toward the harbor. What a treat. The store at Windigo does make the best sandwiches on the island (Rock Harbor food is okay). Look forward to your trip report too.

[tfoster]

Thanks so much, all!

We're going to tentatively plan on the McCargoe Cove to Chippewa Harbor trek (with a stop at Moskey Basin) and if we end up feeling really ambitious, we'll switch that route to McCargoe Cove to Rock Harbor.

I already have a couple more questions though!

1. Trekking poles - we don't have them and have never used them. We've always just used walking sticks that we've picked up in the woods. Will that be adequate for either of the above routes (i.e. MC to CH, MC to RH) or do you think we should get poles?
2. Do you think the two little guys will need hiking boots or will they be okay with thick treaded sneakers?
3. I can't imagine that we're going to be able to bring sleeping pads since not everyone will be able to carry all of their own gear and so a couple of us will have to carry stuff for others. Will we break our backs? Is the island ground super hard and rocky? Best case scenario I think is that we bring just a couple and take turns with them.

I'm well on my way through the Trip Report posts and have started writing down ideas for food. When DS(15) first suggested this adventure as part of our family trip, I was a bit apprehensive, but now I'm super excited! I fell in love with Lake Superior when I lived in northern Wisconsin for a few years, and I've said a number of times that I have no doubt that is where my soul was born. I can't wait to experience Isle Royale and I'll definitely report back to you!

[jerry]

1. I think you folks'll do fine with walking sticks on the routes selected (good choice on the routes being considered).
2. The shoe issue-I've used hiking boots and low cut trail shoes. Make sure the young ones are used to their shoes before you get to Isle Royale, wool socks would cut down on blisters, some folks would suggest liners for the socks (I never use them). Since you'll be hiking on rocky surfaces from time to time the footwear needs some support.
3. How many tents are you carrying? If you, your husband, and oldest son can carry about 35-40 pounds, maybe the younger ones can carry 10-15 pounds (i.e. sleeping bag, clothes and some food). That way maybe the older folks can carry the extra pads. Some of the pads now only weigh about 1-2 pounds. If you're in a tent, most camp sites are not very soft.

[fonixmunkee]

I'm glad you're currently opting for the McCargoe-Chippewa route. The Indian Portage trail will give you a good overall experience of what Isle Royale has to offer.

To answer your next questions:

1. Trekking poles - we don't have them and have never used them. We've always just used walking sticks that we've picked up in the woods. Will that be adequate for either of the above routes (i.e. MC to CH, MC to RH) or do you think we should get poles?

I was skeptical of trekking poles until I used them. I couldn't go without them now, but that's just personal preference. Neither of these routes will be overly difficult and will necessitate the use of a trekking pole, so a walking stick would be just fine.

2. Do you think the two little guys will need hiking boots or will they be okay with thick treaded sneakers?

This is a question I don't think I've answered before. I've seen a lot of people hike in those trail shoes, like Jerry mentioned below. I value the support and waterproofness that are afforded by hiking boots, but I would imagine they are not necessary. The big concern for the little ones would be keeping their feet dry. It will more than likely rain once before, after, or during your visit to IR.

3. I can't imagine that we're going to be able to bring sleeping pads since not everyone will be able to carry all of their own gear and so a couple of us will have to carry stuff for others. Will we break our backs? Is the island ground super hard and rocky? Best case scenario I think is that we bring just a couple and take turns with them.

A risky idea. I'd make a point of packing them, if you can. A lot of the ground that you may have to camp on will be rocky (especially if you have to camp at Chippewa or Chickenbone). I would try and pack some for everyone. If you have the larger sleeping pads, and space/weight is an issue, it might be worthwhile in investing in some of the smaller backpackpacking pads at the least. You can look around and sometimes find them starting out at $40. Plus, they are an investment you can use again and again (I use mine all the time, and not always for camping)

You are going to have a blast at IR. Keep up with the questions!

[Tom]

I think you're on the right track selecting the McCargoe to Chippewa route. It's not too difficult, overall, and there are enough campsites in the vincinity that you can adapt your route as you find necessary. (The NPS doesn't require you to stick to itinerary for parties of 6 or fewer, so if you find a camp you like along the route, you can certainly opt to stay there.)

The hike from McCargoe to Chickenbone is fairly flat, since you follow the water flowage for the most part. There is a fairly long plank system near West Chickenbone, that the kids might like, and it's not really a 'cliff' by any means, but if you get vertigo you might need to just take your time. (It's only a couple feet off the water/swamp.) I wouldn't change the route, however, since most moist areas of Isle Royale have this same type of planking.
The hike out of Chickenbone up to the Greenstone (along the "North Face") might be the most strenous part, although it's really not that bad, and not TOO long. It's just "up." Then it's pretty much down (generally) a slight slope to Ritchie, Moskey, and Chippewa. The trail from Ritchie to Moskey is a little rocky, and would be the only reason I would personally recommend boots for everyone. It's not as much the hard surface (there are times you'll walk on bare rock) as much as the ankle-twisting possiblities, with loose rocks or unseen rocks in the grassy trail sections. However, I think a child would probably do fine with shoes, especially if their load is light. As Fonix says, the Indian Portage Trail isn't so bad.
I would highly recommend to try to get to Moskey; especially if it's mid summer and the weather is good. The chance to swim in Superior at that campsite is wonderful - And there is a great little cove by the dock that warms (by Lake Superior standards) nicely on a sunny day.
The children of all ages should enjoy the "exploring" opportunities; be it the mines near McCargoe Cove, the hills behind Chippewa, or the many other fun things to see on the Isle. I think you'll have a great family trip!

[Kevinl]

From the time I started reading the first thread here, I was hoping you would start at McCargoe Cove. It's a great route. I wouldn't worry about trekking poles. While I'm finally a big advocate of them, your campsites are close and it would just be extra weight and bulk t get in the way. Instead, I would consider the sleeping pads (I can't imagine myself camping without them, and they're not very heavy). As someone who's taken kids to Isle Royale, I wouldn't worry about the shoes, and I wouldn't buy hiking boots for little growing people who most likely wouldn't end up using them much later. I would expect their shoes to get wet, simply because they are kids (again, instead of shoes, I would spend on the sleeping pads).

If you end up driving along the north shore of Minnesota, the Superior Hiking Trail offers lots of free campsites not far from trailheads too.

One thing to consider is that the boat ride from Grand Portage to McCargoe can feel long sometimes for me (although I'm all antsy to be there) but it might get even longer for little ones. I'd consider bringing them something (for mine a simple deck of cards worked) to help pass the down time between sights.

Those kids are going to have a blast, and so will the rest of you. I can't wait to hear about your trip.

[Kevinl]

And here's one more thought, if you're wanting to get a taste of the civilized part of the island. Depending on boat schedules, you could always take the Voyageur from Chippewa to Windogo/Washington Creek, spend a night there, where there are often moose in the creek (the cows actually like to be near where there's so many people because it's safer from wolf attack for their young ones), ranger programs, and a store with ice cream and sometimes frozen pizza, lots of shelters, nice day hike opportunities, etc., then take the Wenonah back the next day. I don't know how much more expensive that might get, but the only real money issues at IR are the transportation. Just an option. Swimming there can be nice too.

[Midwest Ed]

About sleeping pads:

I think the full length ones are over kill. Half or 3/4 length (butt to shoulders) is all that is needed. The "standard" blue closed cell foam takes out the roots and small rocks. Some of the newer self inflating ones look like something to try but I don't think you can cut them shorter. The smallest blue foam cut in half (or there about) would probably suit both kids.

About Kid's feet:

As stated earlier, it's hard to justify hiking boots for growing feet. A good walking, athletic shoe will work. If you are looking to get new ones then look at those with a tread width as wide as possible (usually classified as cross trainers but I don't know about kids shoes). They really help stability against twisted ankles.

Kids (and most adults) won't complain about blisters until it's too late. Stop early and frequently to apply Mole skin (or Duct Tape as recommended by some) as needed or apply it first thing as a prophylactic.

~Ed

[Tampico]

While you're making lists of stuff to bring don't forget a good first-aid kit.

[tfoster]

You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the tips and info - especially about the different parts of the trail. That is super helpful information!

So we ARE going to make bringing a pad for everyone a priority. We currently have both self-inflating and foam pads, but they all seem kind of big and bulky to me, so I'm going to look for smaller and lighter ones. I love the idea of cutting one in half for the two littlest guys. That makes perfect sense, and I don't think I would have ever thought of it.

Yep, we have two Adventure Medical Kits. I'm embarrassed to say we used to go out on hikes without carrying a first aid kit, but now we always carry one. Fortunately, we've never had to use it, but now I can't imagine going out without it. The kits have some moleskins in them, but I think as a precaution I'll get some extra.

Jerry asked about tents. Right now we have four of them:
1. a big huge Coleman family one that we LOVE - but. . . a great big NO for this trip as it's just way too heavy and would be a real hassle to keep putting up and taking down
2. a 15-year old Eureka - a pretty big NO as it's really showing its age, has a couple of rips where the poles go through, and I don't really trust it other than as an "extra room" (when we have a big site) for storing some of our supplies and as a board game or reading area
3. a 1-year old Kelty - a great big YES as it is very weatherproof and is super light
4. a few-years-old small pup tent - this thing is pretty tiny, but somehow me, DS(15), DD(10), and our dog somehow managed to all sleep in it last summer when we rowed into our camp site - we slept flat on our backs, all on 2 pads, and legs bent depending on where the dog was sleeping! - can you say c-o-z-y?!; I think you can carry this thing with one pinky BUT it is a very fair weather tent, so I was thinking that it should stay home
A friend who regularly island camps in the Adirondacks offered to let us borrow his tent. I can't decide whether it's worth it to take his in addition to our Kelty, to carry the extra weight for more space or to just buck up and all stay in the Kelty. We'd all fit, but it would be tight. I was thinking that maybe we'd decide once we started packing and see where we are weight-wise. Any thoughts on that dilemma? (And I am hoping that most of our nights can be spent in a shelter!)

Sleeping bags - we have 20F and 40F bags. We also have a couple of liners that are supposed to add 10 more degrees of warmth. I'm thinking especially if we're sleeping in close quarters and wear our warm long johns that those should be okay. But do you think we should try to travel with just 20F bags? I hope you say no because I hate to have 6 of them, but I really don't want anyone to be freezing at night so I'll defer to your collective judgment.

Water filter - we've never had to use one, and my island camping friend also offered to let us borrow his. He said it's a bit of a pain to use though, which makes me wonder if he has an older one because it seems (from the posts on this forum and from reading filter descriptions) that there are some pretty painless ones out there. In any event, borrowing his would save us money, but I'm leaning towards our just getting our own. If you didn't have one, would you borrow someone's or would you feel more comfortable getting a new one?

I've read in some of the trip reports about people kind-of training for their trip. I wasn't planning to do that. I typically walk at least 4 miles a day (for exercise) and purposely include going up pretty steep bridge walkways in my route. I was thinking once it got closer that I could start going out occasionally wearing my pack. Is that sufficient or should I do more than that?

Would love to spend at least one night in Windigo, but I don't think we can do that AND the McCargoe Cove -> Chippewa route. It's costing quite a bit to get all six of us out to IR and back, and from what I recall, adding that option to the trip would add a couple more hundred dollars to the trip. I'll check it again though.

Not a question, but I thought I'd share - this morning I ordered a new Lowe Alpine backpack designed for women. Can't wait to try it out. I'm kind-of petite (5'1" and 117 pounds) so most anything on my back feels just a little "off". The one I ordered is supposed to be super adjustable, so I'm really hoping I can get a perfect fit from it!

Took notes from the food forum and I'm starting to work on our food list. Planning the food is always fun!

Thanks for reading and I hope you don't get tired of my questions! LOL

[Tom]

Tfoster - We LOVE helping others plan their trips. Sometimes there are years that folks can't make it out, and they can live through the rest!
As per your queries:

Tent - The lightest tent(s) that can fit everyone is probably the best. You're carrying them on your back, after all. "Car camping" tents usually don't work out due to weight. Also, it's helpful if you can sit upright in the tent, in case of bad weather. You may be able to rent a tent or two from a local outdoor store and save money. Sometimes people overlook this, you CAN split up the parts of the tent into everyone's packs - The poles with one, the rainfly with another, etc. Funny how we sometimes think it all has to fit in the same sack... Most campsites on IR have two decent tent "pads", and a third "you call that a tent pad?" area. (These are just areas cleared of rocks and logs, essentially.) The sites along Superior (McCargoe Cove, Moskey Basin, and Chippewa) will have shelters available (first come first served, asked to double up as necessary in inclement weather) that would hold your family, and those campgrounds also have picnic tables. The interior sites (West Chickenbone, Ritche) lack those two amenities.

Sleeping Bag - In mid June and beyond, the low temp rarely would drop below the mid-forties. Now, I realize I'm a Scandanivian heritage Minnesotan, but I would find a 20F bag hot. You can always wear a base layer inside the bag, and the 40F bags will pack better and lighter. Lake Superior is a really, really, really big temperature regulator, which is why temps don't fluctuate too much high or low.

Filter- I'd say it's a must on IR, especially with the volume of water for your size family. I've borrowed in the past from friends as necessary, and it's not an issue if they've maintained their filter, and you learn how to use it BEFORE you head to the Isle. (I've provided tutorials to some IR campers on both their filters and stoves in the past...)

Training -Anyone in decent health with no major body issues will do fine on IR without any special preparatory regimen. That being said, I always find the first couple of miles with a full pack to be hard on the body, as your hips get used to the weight, your knees adjust, and you tweak the straps. A well fitting pack does wonders. Getting those first couple of miles out of the way before you arrive will only help.